Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by surface »

That makes sense Steve. Low frequency, higher energy. Im gonna patent my sandbag bass traps :P

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Victor
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Victor »

Been working on my treatment this weekend. So far so good. But I've put some foam underneath my monitors and suddenly my mix sounds a bit dull. I don't feel that much resonance anymore through my desk (which is good). Still need to experiment with thickness or something.

Question is; Can you over-decoupling (sounds weird) your monitors?

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Hades »

Victor wrote:Been working on my treatment this weekend. So far so good. But I've put some foam underneath my monitors and suddenly my mix sounds a bit dull. I don't feel that much resonance anymore through my desk (which is good). Still need to experiment with thickness or something.

Question is; Can you over-decoupling (sounds weird) your monitors?
Can you over-decouple your monitors ? I should think not, logically speaking (but I'm far from an expert).
I mean, once they are not resonating their underlying surfaces anymore, that's where it ends, right ? They're not all of a sudden gonna start to float in mid-air, right ? :)

But if your mixes sound duller after treatment it probably means you were adjusting your mixes to your room,
and now that the room has become "flatter" your mixes sound duller.

In my studio I have 1 or 2 bass notes that sound less loud and 1 or 2 that sound louder.
Sometimes I wonder if it's the result of my double bass traps on the walls behind my monitors,
but I'm more inclined to think it's just standing waves resulting in (slightly) doubling or dissapearing waves.
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Victor wrote:
Question is; Can you over-decoupling (sounds weird) your monitors?
No.

Any change in your overall sound space will take time to get used to. Calling it "too dull" or "too bright" without any objective measurement will have you going around in subjective circles forever.
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Victor »

Thanks Hades and Steve. It's just that I mixed my tracks in an 'Empty box' with a lot of room acoustics and reflections. Will take some time indeed before I will get used to it. Still need to consider which new monitors I want to buy... And then again, I will have to get used to those.

Thanks,

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Hades »

when I redid my studio a few years ago, I decided to "throw out" all the non-music related stuff.
I like a (relatively) clean room, and I thought it would help me feel better when making music.
So I threw out the shelve with manuals and put the manuals under the table that holds my mixer, and took out some other stuff.

Man, my room sounded totally different being more "empty".
Of course I expected a little difference, but I never expected the difference to be so huge.
It was as if all that crap absorbed a lot of stuff, or at least diffused waves a lot.
All of a sudden a normal kick almost sounded like a hippy playing a djembe in the park.
My whole reaction was "fuck, I'm majorly fucked !!" :shock:

So I started some reading and bought acoustic panels and bass-traps.
It costed me enough, but it was totally worth it.
I won't say my room is perfect cause it's not, and I probably need to sort out one or two small frequency problems,
but I always have headphones to compare mixes with, so being just a passionate amateur with little knowledge about these things (it is pure science after all),
I'm just post-poning this for a later day (make that a later year) :)

Anyway, moral of the story : room treatment is a very good investment.
Just do some basic reading on the net and don't attach stuff permanently to your walls before you're sure they're at the right place.
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Victor »

Hades wrote:when I redid my studio a few years ago, I decided to "throw out" all the non-music related stuff.
I like a (relatively) clean room, and I thought it would help me feel better when making music.
So I threw out the shelve with manuals and put the manuals under the table that holds my mixer, and took out some other stuff.

Anyway, moral of the story : room treatment is a very good investment.
Just do some basic reading on the net and don't attach stuff permanently to your walls before you're sure they're at the right place.

Exactly. When I moved to my new house I wanted it to be basic and minimalistic. I usually don't like putting stuff on the walls, and I prefer my desk (2m long) to be clean and not messy. Also feeling better when making music indeed in a clean looking environment.

After checking the forum and the net I've made some panels just to reduce some reflections and absorb some frequencies. Those panels can be replaced easily because I just need one screw and an attachment plate thing-ish (on the back side of the panel). Actually the costs weren't that much. Want to put them on my walls today. At least the early reflection panels. Those can be placed with the mirror trick right? Can't do much wrong with those?

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by ross-alexander »

Just moved today and will finally do something about setting up a good mix room. Issue is its got a 30 degrees sloped ceiling which will mean the ceiling is asymmetrical lengthways (the only realistic way this room could be set up). Does anybody have any experience in dealing with this? I have done a fair bit of reading round the other issues, just not entirely sure how to combat this. Were it the other way round would set up in the low end and this may actually have been better to combat standing waves (I think!). However as things stand (no pun intended), will need to set up the other way round. One window round about the mirror point on the left, one door at the back.

Really hope that I can get a nice room sorted where I can enjoy working!

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Post by innovine »

So, I can't hang anything on the walls other than framed pictures and art work as per my contract with the landlord.
Just go to http://spoonflower.com and upload some art. They print your images onto textile. Pick something that's acoustically transparent and use it to wrap an inch or two of rockwool in a frame. Another tip which i didn't yet see mentioned here (but i didn't read every post..) is that the side panels work best if there's an equal amount of empty space behind them! So if you have a 2 inch panel of rockwool, hang it so it's 2 inches from the wall. That air gap is quite important!

I doubt your landlord can complain about overly fat picture frames, or that you hang them out from the wall a bit (a little dowel in each corner works fine as a standoff)

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by oddmyth »

ross-alexander wrote:Just moved today and will finally do something about setting up a good mix room. Issue is its got a 30 degrees sloped ceiling which will mean the ceiling is asymmetrical lengthways (the only realistic way this room could be set up). Does anybody have any experience in dealing with this? I have done a fair bit of reading round the other issues, just not entirely sure how to combat this. Were it the other way round would set up in the low end and this may actually have been better to combat standing waves (I think!). However as things stand (no pun intended), will need to set up the other way round. One window round about the mirror point on the left, one door at the back.

Really hope that I can get a nice room sorted where I can enjoy working!
The ceiling still works in your favour, it will help diffuse sound from primary reflection points. You can still dampen on the walls though, the angular position of the dampening material isn't significant, it's still going to do what it does best. Other than that you can treat it like any other room, with the exception of the fact that you have some diffusion coming from the ceiling.
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by ross-alexander »

that is good sounds like something has gone my way there then. honestly couldn't remember if it was flat or not. cant wait to set it all up :)

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by msl »

ross-alexander wrote:Just moved today and will finally do something about setting up a good mix room. Issue is its got a 30 degrees sloped ceiling which will mean the ceiling is asymmetrical lengthways (the only realistic way this room could be set up). Does anybody have any experience in dealing with this? I have done a fair bit of reading round the other issues, just not entirely sure how to combat this. Were it the other way round would set up in the low end and this may actually have been better to combat standing waves (I think!). However as things stand (no pun intended), will need to set up the other way round. One window round about the mirror point on the left, one door at the back.

Really hope that I can get a nice room sorted where I can enjoy working!
Not sure I understand exactly how your describing it, but slopped ceiling should help generally. Anything that gets away from strait surfaces and the box shape is good. Normally I think you'd want to have your monitors at the low end of the room... window might be a problem if its exactly at the mirror point.

I guess for a more expert option you should post a diagram mock up on GS in the Acoustics Forum, I got some good advise there.

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by ross-alexander »

It's not a massive room nor have I decided the exact config.However thankfully having set up my speakers and had a listen without anything added yet I can already tell its going to be a much better place for me to work. Fingers crossed never really got going over the last 18 months.

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by msl »

ross-alexander wrote:Fingers crossed never really got going over the last 18 months.
Yeah if its decent with nothing then your lucky, every room/space is different, I'm in my third now, first two were fine as they were, they had odd shapes, carpeting and lots of furniture and stuff to help defuse the sound. It was only this room I'm in now that was the problem, a bare concrete box... fucking echo chamber. But its much better now.

Still need to install a cloud at some point, every one I've asked has recommended it. Might buy 3 ready made panels (and stick them together) from a company here in Germany, though they are kinda thin... don't feel like doing more DIY. http://www.schalltechnik-mm.de/Produktu ... -W-50.html
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Hades »

msl wrote:
ross-alexander wrote:Fingers crossed never really got going over the last 18 months.
Yeah if its decent with nothing then your lucky, every room/space is different, I'm in my third now, first two were fine as they were, they had odd shapes, carpeting and lots of furniture and stuff to help defuse the sound. It was only this room I'm in now that was the problem, a bare concrete box... fucking echo chamber. But its much better now.

Still need to install a cloud at some point, every one I've asked has recommended it. Might buy 3 ready made panels (and stick them together) from a company here in Germany, though they are kinda thin... don't feel like doing more DIY. http://www.schalltechnik-mm.de/Produktu ... -W-50.html
damn those are cheap panels.

yeah I need to install a mixing cloud as well. I have a few bass frequencies that sound so much louder than others and a few that sound a little softer.
I'm hoping a mixing cloud could help with some of that. I already have enough bass traps and absorbing panels, and there's a 3-tier stand behind me that I can't place anywhere else, and that's most likely not helping the situation but only reflecting waves to my mixing spot.
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by msl »

Hades wrote:damn those are cheap panels.
Well they are only 50mm.. so I guess they won't do a lot for bass but figure they might help focus things a bit at the listening position for cheap.


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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by ross-alexander »

Thats very cheap! still going to treat mine once have all my shelves and surfaces sorted and position. Just glad it's not horrendous like the last one, can actually sit and do again, not been able to enjoy that for aaaages

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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by msl »

ross-alexander wrote:Thats very cheap! still going to treat mine once have all my shelves and surfaces sorted and position. Just glad it's not horrendous like the last one, can actually sit and do again, not been able to enjoy that for aaaages

Yeah had the same problem when I moved in here, couldn't use the monitors at all only headphones for the first few months it was that bad.


Here's a very simple and easy to understand article with the basics for anybody who wants.
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com/2014/1 ... tto-style/
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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by msl »

A heads up for anyone living in Berlin, these guys make some nice looking basstraps and the prices seems very reasonable. Might buy a few extra to supplement the ones I already made myself.

https://www.facebook.com/basstrapberlin

Full range sound absorber Basstrap - 100x60x10 cm - € 59
Full range sound absorber Basstrap - 100x60x20 cm - € 74
Full range sound absorber Basstrap - 100x60x30 cm - € 99
Full range sound absorber panel - 50x50x20 cm - € 34
QRD diffuser - 30x30 cm / range 800 Hz - 4000 Hz - € 99


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Re: Acoustic treatment, where to start?, what to do?

Post by Adam »

Thanks for the tip!

I'm planing to test some bass traps from eBay: http://www.ebay.de/itm/6-St-BASS-TRAP-A ... 2326237ef0

They are smaller than the "basstrapberlin"-stuff, but maybe i can compensate the size when putting more of them in my corners.


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