EQing out the resonances

[Duffdeal]

I (EQ noob) belatedly realised that those big narrow spikes in the spectrum analyser are called resonances and can be bad for the ears. Now I know, it's very satisfying to crank up the Q and cut them out. Feels like I'm doing real producer stuff. 

But when you're slamming the fx to add harmonics and all the good shit, it's quite common to get a hash sound that has loads of resonances which move from side to side on the spectrum. I want to de-harsh the sound so it doesn't physically hurt and/or spoil the mix, but making dozens of notch filters would be very slow and boring. And a broad high frequency cut just makes it sound dull.     

What's going on with big spiky resonance and how much of it can be left in? Probably a silly way to frame it, I know you don't want a flat spectrum and I know it's ultimately down to your ears. But my ears are still quite shit, hence the belated realisation that big frequency spikes are even an issue. 

I'd like to know how other people handle it in this genre, where we like to push things to the edge. Are there any rules of thumb I can use to start on the path to better techno EQ?     

[Amøbe]

I urgently need someone to come up with a good answer to this! I'm 90 % of the time too lazy to eq out nasty resonances...

[borg]

It's the old "trust your ears"... I may even boost them at times, depending on the situation. One constant though is cutting 909 cymbals/hats, these are infamous (or anything in that category).

[Críoch]

Aye.. the ride whistle.

[borg]

If you don't treat annoying resonances before processing that adds harmonics, you'll end up with multiples, and when you come to the point you want to bring your mix to a competitive level, those ugly resonances will stand out even more. Trying to get rid of them in the final stage will have an impact on the rest of the sounds, as mentioned many times by Steve. Fix in the mix...

[dubdub]

I think one important thing to note is that resonances that sound bad in isolation might not necessarily sound bad in the context of the mix. They often add character and distinctiveness to a sound. Most of the time when I'm EQing out resonances, I will find myself dialing the EQ back later on or just take it off completely.

[Lost to the Void]

Untamed resonance is a very very common problem for me when dealing with mastering stuff from project studio producers. It`s often a case of compromise by that point as I will be taming whatever else sits with those resonant issues.

EQ isn`t always a solution, but sometimes can be. Dynamic EQ can also be useful. Some EQ`s will let you set a harmonic series, so you set the centre cut and then it dials in harmonics for you. Though this only works if your problems are within harmonic division.

Quite often compression is the solution. Flattening out the signal in the resonant area, occasionally dual band or multiband can be the best. Set your area, then only compress where the resonances are an issue, so you reduce the peak to rms difference of the resonances.

Sometimes clipping, saturation, or dynamic saturation (something like BX refinement can work nicely to smooth out high end resonance, and it can also work dynamically) can work if you push the peaks into the saturation. Tube-like saturation can help here as it will react based on signal strength.

Compression or dynamic EQ is generally how I deal with in the mix.

In mastering I generally just tear my hair out and swear at the artist.

[Lost to the Void]

It's the old "trust your ears"... I may even boost them at times, depending on the situation. One constant though is cutting 909 cymbals/hats, these are infamous (or anything in that category).

Was literally dealing with this issue yesterday.
Mastering a 4 track EP for vinyl, all the tracks were mixed to a passable level, but on every track, when the ride came it, it was too loud, almost completely raw, and just dominated the top end.
But the rest of the top end was fine, so a simple cut at the centre frequency would mean also cutting vital stuff present when the ride was not running.
It was way above 5k and had the added bonus of the extra problems resonance up in the top end can cause vinyl cutting...

And of course the artist "couldn`t redo the mix, because it was recorded live".

A common reply by artists who don`t want to fix their mixes.... Occasionally it is true though.

[Evert]

I'm a bit surprised by your answer here Steve.
Not taking anything away from your advice as you definitely know what you are talking about.

Multiband compression (to me) seems like something quite advanced for a seemingly simple issue.

[Lost to the Void]

I'm a bit surprised by your answer here Steve.
Not taking anything away from your advice as you definitely know what you are talking about.

Multiband compression (to me) seems like something quite advanced for a seemingly simple issue.

It's not a simple issue though.
You can just use a compressor and set the internal sidechain to skip the low end frequencies. Or if the sidechain has dual filters then use the hipass and low pass to zero in on th frequencies range. But then you are essentially just doing multiband anyway.

[dubdub]

What do you use for multiband? There's like a million of 'em

[Lost to the Void]

I pretty much exclusively am using Dragonfire by Denise Audio.
In production and mastering.
It's not exactly multiband, it's like some lovechild of Pro-audio dynamic spectrum mapper, Spectre saturation, an EQ and a compressor.

The push pull feature is like a continuous smooth transitional version of the deemphasis feature on Spectre.
You can fade between emphasis and deemphasis.
Instead of pushing into saturation using EQ curves like Spectre, you are pushing input gain to the compressor using EQ curves. If that makes sense. Then you can pull back the gain, post compression, if you like, so that the frequency output is flattened, and all you hear is the compression. It's sorta based on the Pultech push/pull circuit. A little like with Spectre where you can select deemphasis mode, so you only hear the saturation, or the selectable stages of emphasis where you get the gain boost as well.
It can both compress and EQ at the same time. Or compress and EQ and saturate at the same time, on a frequency basis, all within a 6 band parametric EQ paradigm.

So you control what gets compressed and how much, or what doesn't get compressed and how much or both
It's kinda genius, I'm still learning its potential, you have smooth transitions between peak and RMS, same with the compression curves. There's a lot going on with really very manageable features.

Great company doing innovative things.

[timc3]

I have nothing to add apart from if you are looking for an EQ that can do dynamic EQ then TDR Nova is good and I often use it to tame peaks. And it's free for the normal addition.

[dubdub]

I pretty much exclusively am using Dragonfire by Denise Audio.
In production and mastering.
It's not exactly multiband, it's like some lovechild of Pro-audio dynamic spectrum mapper, Spectre saturation, an EQ and a compressor.

The push pull feature is like a continuous smooth transitional version of the deemphasis feature on Spectre.
You can fade between emphasis and deemphasis.
Instead of pushing into saturation using EQ curves like Spectre, you are pushing input gain to the compressor using EQ curves. If that makes sense. Then you can pull back the gain, post compression, if you like, so that the frequency output is flattened, and all you hear is the compression. It's sorta based on the Pultech push/pull circuit. A little like with Spectre where you can select deemphasis mode, so you only hear the saturation, or the selectable stages of emphasis where you get the gain boost as well.
It can both compress and EQ at the same time. Or compress and EQ and saturate at the same time, on a frequency basis, all within a 6 band parametric EQ paradigm.

So you control what gets compressed and how much, or what doesn't get compressed and how much or both
It's kinda genius, I'm still learning its potential, you have smooth transitions between peak and RMS, same with the compression curves. There's a lot going on with really very manageable features.

Great company doing innovative things.

Ah, sounds similar to what you can do with the Tone Projects Unisum sidechain, which I bought on GAS-whim.

[Belka]

The bigger ones i do by hand, the heavy spiky dynamic ones (e.g. Synth + Resonator + different Notes/Pitch) i tame with TB DSEQ (im still on v2, latest is 3). Its a dynamic Resonance killer like Soothe2 with a bit of more features and much cheaper price tag. But Soothe is great too, 2 times a year its gets on sale for 100 instead of 200 bucks. Both can be demo´d. Tutorial Vids are recommended.
https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/dseq (dont get irritated by the Spectrum Pic, its just a new feature)
https://oeksound.com/plugins/soothe2/

[Lost to the Void]

I pretty much exclusively am using Dragonfire by Denise Audio.
In production and mastering.
It's not exactly multiband, it's like some lovechild of Pro-audio dynamic spectrum mapper, Spectre saturation, an EQ and a compressor.

The push pull feature is like a continuous smooth transitional version of the deemphasis feature on Spectre.
You can fade between emphasis and deemphasis.
Instead of pushing into saturation using EQ curves like Spectre, you are pushing input gain to the compressor using EQ curves. If that makes sense. Then you can pull back the gain, post compression, if you like, so that the frequency output is flattened, and all you hear is the compression. It's sorta based on the Pultech push/pull circuit. A little like with Spectre where you can select deemphasis mode, so you only hear the saturation, or the selectable stages of emphasis where you get the gain boost as well.
It can both compress and EQ at the same time. Or compress and EQ and saturate at the same time, on a frequency basis, all within a 6 band parametric EQ paradigm.

So you control what gets compressed and how much, or what doesn't get compressed and how much or both
It's kinda genius, I'm still learning its potential, you have smooth transitions between peak and RMS, same with the compression curves. There's a lot going on with really very manageable features.

Great company doing innovative things.

Ah, sounds similar to what you can do with the Tone Projects Unisum sidechain, which I bought on GAS-whim.

Oh god no. It's like the opposite of that.
That thing takes a complex process and makes it even more complex by having a really ugly clunky GUI
They don't do the same thing at all.
That thing has multiband detection, but that's about the only similarity. Dragonfire is a pleasure to use, and like I said it's very complex but GUI design is perfect in making it simple manageable and quick to dial in.
The unison is a nice wideband compressor, but the obsession with making it look real just clunks up the usability. Companies need to stop copying hardware GUIs.
Definitely not the same thing.
I use Dragonfire every day. Unisum I barely use.

[Lost to the Void]

The bigger ones i do by hand, the heavy spiky dynamic ones (e.g. Synth + Resonator + different Notes/Pitch) i tame with TB DSEQ (im still on v2, latest is 3). Its a dynamic Resonance killer like Soothe2 with a bit of more features and much cheaper price tag. But Soothe is great too, 2 times a year its gets on sale for 100 instead of 200 bucks. Both can be demo´d. Tutorial Vids are recommended.
https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/dseq (dont get irritated by the Spectrum Pic, its just a new feature)
https://oeksound.com/plugins/soothe2/

Soothe is great.

[dubdub]

I pretty much exclusively am using Dragonfire by Denise Audio.
In production and mastering.
It's not exactly multiband, it's like some lovechild of Pro-audio dynamic spectrum mapper, Spectre saturation, an EQ and a compressor.

The push pull feature is like a continuous smooth transitional version of the deemphasis feature on Spectre.
You can fade between emphasis and deemphasis.
Instead of pushing into saturation using EQ curves like Spectre, you are pushing input gain to the compressor using EQ curves. If that makes sense. Then you can pull back the gain, post compression, if you like, so that the frequency output is flattened, and all you hear is the compression. It's sorta based on the Pultech push/pull circuit. A little like with Spectre where you can select deemphasis mode, so you only hear the saturation, or the selectable stages of emphasis where you get the gain boost as well.
It can both compress and EQ at the same time. Or compress and EQ and saturate at the same time, on a frequency basis, all within a 6 band parametric EQ paradigm.

So you control what gets compressed and how much, or what doesn't get compressed and how much or both
It's kinda genius, I'm still learning its potential, you have smooth transitions between peak and RMS, same with the compression curves. There's a lot going on with really very manageable features.

Great company doing innovative things.

Ah, sounds similar to what you can do with the Tone Projects Unisum sidechain, which I bought on GAS-whim.

Oh god no. It's like the opposite of that.
That thing takes a complex process and makes it even more complex by having a really ugly clunky GUI
They don't do the same thing at all.
That thing has multiband detection, but that's about the only similarity. Dragonfire is a pleasure to use, and like I said it's very complex but GUI design is perfect in making it simple manageable and quick to dial in.
The unison is a nice wideband compressor, but the obsession with making it look real just clunks up the usability. Companies need to stop copying hardware GUIs.
Definitely not the same thing.
I use Dragonfire every day. Unisum I barely use.

I know the workflow is different, I just meant the multiband sidechain part.

The bigger ones i do by hand, the heavy spiky dynamic ones (e.g. Synth + Resonator + different Notes/Pitch) i tame with TB DSEQ (im still on v2, latest is 3). Its a dynamic Resonance killer like Soothe2 with a bit of more features and much cheaper price tag. But Soothe is great too, 2 times a year its gets on sale for 100 instead of 200 bucks. Both can be demo´d. Tutorial Vids are recommended.
https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/dseq (dont get irritated by the Spectrum Pic, its just a new feature)
https://oeksound.com/plugins/soothe2/

Soothe is great.

How do you decide on a tool like Soothe vs. a good old regular dynamic EQ? Do you reach for it if the resonances are too peculiar / many / spread out to control with regular dynamic? I've tried Soothe and it seems ... easy to abuse/overuse.

[Lost to the Void]

Ah, sounds similar to what you can do with the Tone Projects Unisum sidechain, which I bought on GAS-whim.

Oh god no. It's like the opposite of that.
That thing takes a complex process and makes it even more complex by having a really ugly clunky GUI
They don't do the same thing at all.
That thing has multiband detection, but that's about the only similarity. Dragonfire is a pleasure to use, and like I said it's very complex but GUI design is perfect in making it simple manageable and quick to dial in.
The unison is a nice wideband compressor, but the obsession with making it look real just clunks up the usability. Companies need to stop copying hardware GUIs.
Definitely not the same thing.
I use Dragonfire every day. Unisum I barely use.

I know the workflow is different, I just meant the multiband sidechain part.

The bigger ones i do by hand, the heavy spiky dynamic ones (e.g. Synth + Resonator + different Notes/Pitch) i tame with TB DSEQ (im still on v2, latest is 3). Its a dynamic Resonance killer like Soothe2 with a bit of more features and much cheaper price tag. But Soothe is great too, 2 times a year its gets on sale for 100 instead of 200 bucks. Both can be demo´d. Tutorial Vids are recommended.
https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/dseq (dont get irritated by the Spectrum Pic, its just a new feature)
https://oeksound.com/plugins/soothe2/

Soothe is great.

How do you decide on a tool like Soothe vs. a good old regular dynamic EQ? Do you reach for it if the resonances are too peculiar / many / spread out to control with regular dynamic? I've tried Soothe and it seems ... easy to abuse/overuse.

It`s not a multiband sidechain on Dragonfire. It is literally like Spectre, but instead of driving into saturation, you are driving into compression, although it does also saturate.

[Belka]

How do you decide on a tool like Soothe vs. a good old regular dynamic EQ? Do you reach for it if the resonances are too peculiar / many / spread out to control with regular dynamic? I've tried Soothe and it seems ... easy to abuse/overuse.

yes, overuse can happen fast but you are already aware of it it seems so no prob. If you overdo it you get smashy shit, kill all resonances ends in noise