Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering tools

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
kertikristof
Wastedddd
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:03 pm
Contact:
Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering tools

Post by kertikristof »

Hello everyone,
this post should have been published long time ago, but now the time is here.

In this Summer I contacted Steve Voidloss about a gain staging device idea and started to work on one.
The result is a MaxForLive device called Surgery, a logarithmic mixing tool. It allows the user to get extremely high precision to set the levels around 0 db. Furthermore, it has a mono summing option and a quick high-pass filter.

Surgery page with video and manual:
https://intech.studio/p/?&page=Max4Live&id=1504

Spy is a simple RMS meter and I made it because I missed in Ableton's Utility to go down to -inf db. Also it looks cool and can measure effectively inter device signal flow.

Spy page with video and manual:
https://intech.studio/p/?&page=Max4Live&id=1503




(ps: I was posting here as 0xa, but that alias got nothing to do with me anymore. )
https://intech.studio <- Modular MIDI controllers, MaxForLive devices, DIY Eurorack panels and intech life.
@ https://www.instagram.com/intechstudio/

nacorcb
Face Hugger
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by nacorcb »

Great, thank you very much for this, I really missed integrated VU meters a bigger gain levels display between effects and racks.

This solves it completely.

User avatar
Críoch
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 11025
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:22 pm
Location: Lego City
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by Críoch »

Hi 0xa.. or whoever you are! :mrgreen:

Great work. Will definitely find this incredibly useful!!

Thanks for sharing :)
KennethExack wrote:My kids and I are completely shocked by the specialized secrets that everyone has on this forum
>> Click here for NEW POSTS on subsekt <<

Dialog I The Hole I subsekt Blog I The Bench I IG I SC I Mixes I FB

kertikristof
Wastedddd
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:03 pm
Contact:
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by kertikristof »

Yeah guys, thanks for the kind words!
https://intech.studio <- Modular MIDI controllers, MaxForLive devices, DIY Eurorack panels and intech life.
@ https://www.instagram.com/intechstudio/

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by Lost to the Void »

I literally use this in every single project since the 1st alpha version.
Uber useful.
I think you should have a donate button at least.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

pottering
Interact. Don't Spam.
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:44 am
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by pottering »

Thank you!

I like how Surgery has a max value and only goes down from there, feels safer.

dubdub
Asphyxiwank
Posts: 2454
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:49 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by dubdub »

Lost to the Void wrote:I literally use this in every single project since the 1st alpha version.
Uber useful.
I think you should have a donate button at least.
Do you use surgery for mixing ie. as a replacement for the regular channel faders or just for general gainstaging?

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by Lost to the Void »

dubdub wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:I literally use this in every single project since the 1st alpha version.
Uber useful.
I think you should have a donate button at least.
Do you use surgery for mixing ie. as a replacement for the regular channel faders or just for general gainstaging?
I mainly use it for automating fades on channels. It sits at the end of the fx chain on a bus or track.
That way I can change the channel faders without effecting automation fades. And as I do everything via controllers, you need log gain control as when you get close to zero is when you get the most noticable changes in the mix.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

intrusav
Rolf Harris
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:10 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by intrusav »

This sounds interesting. Nice idea. Will check it out ..

User avatar
jordanneke
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 4166
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:16 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by jordanneke »

Downloaded for R Whoretin.

In all seriousness, I am gonna use this tonight.

You should have a donate button.

intrusav
Rolf Harris
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:10 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by intrusav »

Bread & Butter ..

kertikristof
Wastedddd
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:03 pm
Contact:
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by kertikristof »

intrusav wrote:Bread & Butter ..
Now I get it... :D

Thank you guys for the support. In early 2018 I am planning to add Mid/Side processing and advanced panning options to Surgery.
https://intech.studio <- Modular MIDI controllers, MaxForLive devices, DIY Eurorack panels and intech life.
@ https://www.instagram.com/intechstudio/

User avatar
P0607r0n
Metric Martyr
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:27 am
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by P0607r0n »

Very good stuffs.
Gonna download them asap... And yeah donation button is a good idea to have there. ;>

nacorcb
Face Hugger
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by nacorcb »

Mmm... is it possible to increase Spy VU meter needle accuracy for the next update?

Currently it doesnt correlate well with any VU meter pluging reading.

I always have a VU meter plugin on the master bus pinned on screen to adjust track gains, but I would love to have individual VU meters in everytrack without eating screen space.

Spy is exactly what I was looking for, but unfortunately Spy VU meter reading doesnt correlate well.

I wouldnt mind to pay for it.

nacorcb
Face Hugger
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by nacorcb »

EDIT: Is the third line starting from the right on the VU meter display supposed to be 0 VU?

If so, then the reading works quite well.

nacorcb
Face Hugger
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by nacorcb »

Ugh, third line starting from the left, my mistake.

kertikristof
Wastedddd
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:03 pm
Contact:
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by kertikristof »

nacorcb wrote:Mmm... is it possible to increase Spy VU meter needle accuracy for the next update?

Currently it doesnt correlate well with any VU meter pluging reading.

I always have a VU meter plugin on the master bus pinned on screen to adjust track gains, but I would love to have individual VU meters in everytrack without eating screen space.

Spy is exactly what I was looking for, but unfortunately Spy VU meter reading doesnt correlate well.

I wouldnt mind to pay for it.
The third tick from the right indicates 0db and also if it passes it, the indicator turns red. Under the small info tab, I summarized the different VU display formats available.

Image
https://intech.studio <- Modular MIDI controllers, MaxForLive devices, DIY Eurorack panels and intech life.
@ https://www.instagram.com/intechstudio/

nacorcb
Face Hugger
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by nacorcb »

I have tested a pure sinewave at -18 dB, and Spy VU meter needle sits barely on the third tick from the left (not from the right).

Other VU meter plugin needles sit exactly at 0 VU; or +2 VU if calibrated at -20 dB instead the standard -18 dB.

Not a big issue because I can just take this into account and consider the third tick from the left as 0 VU but... you know, could you also test it?

kertikristof
Wastedddd
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:03 pm
Contact:
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by kertikristof »

@nacorcb I tested it also, with the "VU" preset and yes, if you feed a sine wave at -18 db to Spy, the RMS value (under the visualization) will output -38db and will reach the third tick from the left.

This happens because the VU type visualization works with -20db offset. If you want to reach 0db with VU type, you have to feed a +20db sine wave into it.

This is how it works for now. :)
https://intech.studio <- Modular MIDI controllers, MaxForLive devices, DIY Eurorack panels and intech life.
@ https://www.instagram.com/intechstudio/

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Post by Lost to the Void »

Should probably use -18db as standard no?
It is....standard.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.


Post Reply