RBMA Demo

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psicomagia
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RBMA Demo

Post by psicomagia »

Hi guys, I need a little help here.

I prepared my demo for submission for the next Red Bull Music Academy, I chose to display both my skills as a instrumentist (playing lead guitar with my heavy psych/prog/jazz band: Psilocibina) and as a producer (mainly producing techno).

The thing is I mixed and maximized all these tracks myself, I'm fairly new to it and my room is not really treated. I would have them mastered, the issue is that I don't think I have enough time for this, since after the demo submission I'll have to fill a large application (that I can only access after uploading my demo). This application needs to be sent by Sep. 14th, so I guess there's not much time to lose.

The first four tracks are all electronic and the last ones are from my band.

Any feedback would be highly appreciated. Thank you! :)

https://soundcloud.com/alexsheeny/sets/ ... 01/s-91Mhu

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kostas
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by kostas »

hi Alex and good luck with the submission. since nobody spoke his mind yet I l give it a try although I am not considering myself an audio ninja...
for the first four tracks, the electronic stuff, the only thing I have to point out is that all the elements that is not mono sounds like they are taking up
unnecessary space and can quickly get your ears fatigued.
try some eq to cut material that is not necessary to every specific sound. combine that with the right combination of compression to control
some things that sounds ''uncontrolled''. I personally avoid heavy delays and too much reverb on drones etc. you need a calibrated room to apply these
things correctly. If you still want the effect either way, try to record them separately and send them to a mastering rig so they would apply the effect in
accordance with your referencing recording. or apply less amount of these effects, meaning that you have to play the guessing game. I know this doesn t
sound musical or artistic at all but these days you have to wear a lot of hats I guess
I liked the rock stuff too ! rock music always sounds complimentary to my ears when I m a bit drunk 8-)
''We all have the equal amount of now. Got it? ... now go and make some good techno.''

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psicomagia
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by psicomagia »

Damn, thanks a lot for this feedback.

You're right man. I'm mixing in an untreated environment and I just couldn't understand why some of the sounds changed so much in other listening environments. I'll give a look into this right now. Cheers!!

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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by kostas »

glad that I m being helpful.
one thing to add is this. you are making busy mixes. I m not saying it is good or bad if this is what one goes for.
the thing with busy mixes in an untreated environment is it can be loaded fast with unnecessary elements. try to
be fair with your tracks and understand what really works, what is adding value and not being a problem in reality.
one way to go is to be ruthless. if you sense that a specific sound doesn t do the job, no matter how much effort and
hours you have put into working it, it doesn t matter. the end user, the listener, doesn t really care how many effort
you made. right? I personally making sure not to have more than, say .. 4 elements working at the same time. and to the
technical side of the things I m working my elements with a gate and a transient shaper plus eq and compression.
especially the delays on the percussive sounds. and more than often when I m happy with what I ve done I m backing
the effect a bit more till I feel i m ''missing'' it. my point is this, try to really put under control all the sounds.
I do this even to samples. very rarely I m leaving a thing alone. just make sure to avoid over processing.
if it s not working easily go for something else.
''We all have the equal amount of now. Got it? ... now go and make some good techno.''

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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Lost to the Void »

Considering that general production standards are better these days, I would say these mixes are below average for small project studio work.
The sound overall lacks depth, coherence, weight and sparkle.
Some tracks sounds very thin and digital, others are crowded and muddy.
There seems to be a particularly consistent problem of quite open top end with very cramped low end.
This is partly to do with the "mastering" and partly a consequence of the mixes.
I would say overall the mixes need more work in the low mids and low end, they need more space, definitely more dynamic, and the low end could go lower and deeper. The mixes overall lack front to back depth, everything sits at the same distance and harmonically things seem flat and lacking warmth and lustre.

The band stuff is better, the mixes are dull in the top end, but at least more consistently coherent.

Too many tracks to feedback effectively in a short time.
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by psicomagia »

Lost to the Void wrote:Considering that general production standards are better these days, I would say these mixes are below average for small project studio work.
The sound overall lacks depth, coherence, weight and sparkle.
Some tracks sounds very thin and digital, others are crowded and muddy.
There seems to be a particularly consistent problem of quite open top end with very cramped low end.
This is partly to do with the "mastering" and partly a consequence of the mixes.
I would say overall the mixes need more work in the low mids and low end, they need more space, definitely more dynamic, and the low end could go lower and deeper. The mixes overall lack front to back depth, everything sits at the same distance and harmonically things seem flat and lacking warmth and lustre.

The band stuff is better, the mixes are dull in the top end, but at least more consistently coherent.

Too many tracks to feedback effectively in a short time.
I'm sorry for sending this many tracks at the same time, I knew it was too much, but because of the deadline and my insecurity I posted it all.

Thanks for the feedback, I feel the same about these tracks and even though some close people gave me more positive feedbacks about these tracks (they're not producers or artists though) I am still very unhappy. It's been a year since I started producing and these are my first electronic tracks ever.

Fortunately I found a person interested in releasing this stuff, obviously with the assistance with a master engineer I hope to find a way to resolve these tracks. I appreciate very much the feedback, actually most of what I learned to this day were mostly from stuff you posted - but obviously I'm still in the learning process, so I'd like to personally thank you.

That's the thing, what you said, below the average. I'm struggling because I'm having a real hard time trying to make my stuff sound more cohesive. No matter how many hours I keep studying, working or listening, the feeling is that I'm always losing something in the process or something I'm still not getting at all.

To be sincere with you it's really pissing me off right now, this feeling that I can't get where I want with those tracks is frustrating as hell.

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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Lost to the Void »

Be patient, it takes time. How long have you been producing techno?
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by psicomagia »

Lost to the Void wrote:Be patient, it takes time. How long have you been producing techno?
My first project ever is dated 26th August 2016, so 1 year. But at that time all I had was Ableton Live, not even a sound card, but that's when I began to do it on a daily basis.

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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Lost to the Void »

So a year in, don`t be too hard on yourself, getting up to an average level of production takes years.
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Will Frances »

Shit one year? I would try to garner some patience, I get your frustration I had and have this myself, I've been going for 4 years, keeping with it is the key and finding a way to keep interested, cold hard persistantance has kept me going even when cyclically I've felt like throwing the towel or and running a skill saw through my machine...

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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Hades »

kostas wrote:and to the
technical side of the things I m working my elements with a gate and a transient shaper plus eq and compression.
so you're learning EQ now ?
using any side-chain compression now as well ?

to OP : you can't seriously expect to enter something like RBMA after only one single year.
It takes years and years and years, but most of all : hours and hours and hours. (and then some more hours)
Your ears will be tired as fuck and feel like they'll bleed any moment after you spent like 10 or 14 hours in the studio.
It takes years of shit like that before you'll have the impression you're getting anywhere,
if you don't have that impression, you're most likely fooling yourself. :)
That 10.000 hour theory thing, you know ? ;)

good luck !
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by psicomagia »

Hades wrote:
kostas wrote:and to the
technical side of the things I m working my elements with a gate and a transient shaper plus eq and compression.
so you're learning EQ now ?
using any side-chain compression now as well ?

to OP : you can't seriously expect to enter something like RBMA after only one single year.
It takes years and years and years, but most of all : hours and hours and hours. (and then some more hours)
Your ears will be tired as fuck and feel like they'll bleed any moment after you spent like 10 or 14 hours in the studio.
It takes years of shit like that before you'll have the impression you're getting anywhere,
if you don't have that impression, you're most likely fooling yourself. :)
That 10.000 hour theory thing, you know ? ;)

good luck !
1 year producing techno. I'm originally a rock and jazz guitarist, and I've been playing for 20 years now as well as bass and piano. Electronic production is just something I'm studying a lot since last year and I judged beneficial to put it in my application as well. I actually know in person three artists who already went to RBMA, they're good but it's not like they're earthless or anything.

Actually that's the point right now with RBMA, they're not looking for established professionals, they're looking for upcoming talents.

That's exactly how many hours I usually spend in production daily since I started. Of course I know the 10.000 hour theory.

I'm not stupid to think that I'll get somewhere effortlessly, I'm just having a moment of frustration regarding electronic music production and mixing in general, which as I stated I'm fairly new. I'm still looking for information, feedback and content to improve myself and my work on these matters. But as an applicant for rbma I have many other skills other than electronic music production or mixing.

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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Hades »

psicomagia wrote: 1 year producing techno. I'm originally a rock and jazz guitarist, and I've been playing for 20 years now as well as bass and piano. Electronic production is just something I'm studying a lot since last year and I judged beneficial to put it in my application as well. I actually know in person three artists who already went to RBMA, they're good but it's not like they're earthless or anything.

Actually that's the point right now with RBMA, they're not looking for established professionals, they're looking for upcoming talents.

That's exactly how many hours I usually spend in production daily since I started. Of course I know the 10.000 hour theory.

I'm not stupid to think that I'll get somewhere effortlessly, I'm just having a moment of frustration regarding electronic music production and mixing in general, which as I stated I'm fairly new. I'm still looking for information, feedback and content to improve myself and my work on these matters. But as an applicant for rbma I have many other skills other than electronic music production or mixing.
I'm originally a classically trained pianist. ;)
started making electronic music years ago, still hardly having the feeling I'm getting anywhere at all. :)

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't RBMA pretty much focused on electronic music ?
I have no idea tbh, so if they do have sections for other types of music, then by all means, do correct me,
but I always thought they were all about electronic music.
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by psicomagia »

Hades wrote:
psicomagia wrote: 1 year producing techno. I'm originally a rock and jazz guitarist, and I've been playing for 20 years now as well as bass and piano. Electronic production is just something I'm studying a lot since last year and I judged beneficial to put it in my application as well. I actually know in person three artists who already went to RBMA, they're good but it's not like they're earthless or anything.

Actually that's the point right now with RBMA, they're not looking for established professionals, they're looking for upcoming talents.

That's exactly how many hours I usually spend in production daily since I started. Of course I know the 10.000 hour theory.

I'm not stupid to think that I'll get somewhere effortlessly, I'm just having a moment of frustration regarding electronic music production and mixing in general, which as I stated I'm fairly new. I'm still looking for information, feedback and content to improve myself and my work on these matters. But as an applicant for rbma I have many other skills other than electronic music production or mixing.
I'm originally a classically trained pianist. ;)
started making electronic music years ago, still hardly having the feeling I'm getting anywhere at all. :)

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't RBMA pretty much focused on electronic music ?
I have no idea tbh, so if they do have sections for other types of music, then by all means, do correct me,
but I always thought they were all about electronic music.
I thought it was only meant for electronic music too, but I went to a lecture regarding the RBMA application a couple of months ago and it actually is open for all music areas. There were many singers, musicists and even solely dj's getting into it.

It appears that they even changed a bit the focus of only choosing seasoned artists because that way they weren't getting people to exchange experiences / making collaborations / jams - which they say is the main purpose of the project. And if you think better it makes all sense, after all they're not really just a label trying to find the best in each style to release records, it's more about content production and of course, marketing the red bull brand.

yeah, my frustration has to do exactly with what you said, this feeling that you're getting nowhere. but then, when I was starting to play instruments the feeling was kind the same.

I think at the end of the day it has to do to the fact that I'm really into learning something new at another stage of my life. When I first got into music and playing instruments I didn't have any bills to pay or responsabilities. Now I've got to divide myself in a bunch to make a living running my business, make time to study production and make more money to set up/upgrade my home studio bit by bit.

Who needs to sleep anyway hahahah? I just love music, it's a purpose.

Anyway, thanks a lot to everyone who contributed. I'm studying all the feedbacks and I'll remake these tracks and try to come up with something better. Cheers!

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Re: RBMA Demo

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psicomagia wrote: I thought it was only meant for electronic music too, but I went to a lecture regarding the RBMA application a couple of months ago and it actually is open for all music areas. There were many singers, musicists and even solely dj's getting into it.

It appears that they even changed a bit the focus of only choosing seasoned artists because that way they weren't getting people to exchange experiences / making collaborations / jams - which they say is the main purpose of the project. And if you think better it makes all sense, after all they're not really just a label trying to find the best in each style to release records, it's more about content production and of course, marketing the red bull brand.
good to hear that RBMA is broadening their horizons,
though where I come from, I got so fed up with all these talent things always being about everything but electronic music that I'm always extremely glad whenever there's something exclusively aimed towards electronic music, you know ? :)
(though I do realize times have changed by now)
psicomagia wrote:yeah, my frustration has to do exactly with what you said, this feeling that you're getting nowhere. but then, when I was starting to play instruments the feeling was kind the same.
man, tell me about it, the last 2 years or so, I've been trying to learn how to play blues piano, and lately boogie woogie. You can't imagine how technically fucked up it is to try and learn that shit when you're a classically trained pianist... It's like trying to cut a steak with a spoon... :)
It's only after I realized that I've been playing piano for 30 years now that I got somewhat more comfortable about saying "I guess I'm a pretty ok piano player".
I mean, if you can't learn to be somewhat decent in anything in 30 years, you might as well just give up because it means you're just not cut out for it... :)
psicomagia wrote: I think at the end of the day it has to do to the fact that I'm really into learning something new at another stage of my life. When I first got into music and playing instruments I didn't have any bills to pay or responsabilities. Now I've got to divide myself in a bunch to make a living running my business, make time to study production and make more money to set up/upgrade my home studio bit by bit.
well, I bought my first synth in '94, right after I got so fed up with learning how to play Bach all the time (always was a Chopin man myself) and quit the classical training, and then spent a year or 3 making totally shit electronic music with totally shitty gear, until I went to univ and forgot about all this for a few years, while still playing piano and doing the DJ thing for many years.

Then I restarted by buying an 88 hammer weighted key synth because I was originally looking for a real piano but lacked the cash or the room back then. After that, I gradually built up my studio over the years, slowly learning my sound design and gradually getting more and more addicted to techno...
I did shadow jobs for years just to have enough free time to spend on my music passion, or being a film freak, or renovating my house, or well... just spending lots of time with my lovely daughters while they're still young enough to think their dad is somehow cool...
so yeah, totally get where you're coming from.
Life and all it's responsibilities... :)
psicomagia wrote: Who needs to sleep anyway hahahah? I just love music, it's a purpose.
I do, right now, need to bring the girls to school tomorrow, hah !
and I hope to give you some proper feedback on your tracks tomorrow as well,
but right now my ears are killing me... :|

take care ! ;)
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Re: RBMA Demo

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Wait what?
Hades, you play piano?
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by psicomagia »

I just reworked one of the tracks again based on the feedbacks and tried to organize the problems listed.

https://soundcloud.com/alexsheeny/ex-qlt-rework/s-be63n
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by jordanneke »

Lost to the Void wrote:Wait what?
Hades, you play piano?

You live and learn!

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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Hades »

Lost to the Void wrote:Wait what?
Hades, you play piano?
actually,
if we'd compare the times you mention you're all about making sure that there is original techno being made once in a while to the times I talk about piano playing,
I'm not so sure who would win...
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Re: RBMA Demo

Post by Hades »

jordanneke wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:Wait what?
Hades, you play piano?

You live and learn!
just to practice your Dutch, you cunt ! ;)

youtu.be/CSpl6fgeKjQ
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