The Age Of Innocence

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Hades
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The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

first of all, I know I should give more feedback in this part of the forum before I ask for your opinions over here.
(if I find the time before I leave on holiday, I will happily do so)
But yeah, I can only hope most of you are aware that I invest a nice chunk of my time into the "post a clip of what you're working on" topic,
giving feedback on pretty much most of the tracks over there...
(apart from other parts of this forum...)

So yeah, here it is, just another finished track :

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tsaro
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by tsaro »

Cool soothing, dream-like atmosphere you've created here, the bass just chugging along under that pad-string combo is surprisingly powerful.

That ethnic flute pad (I think) seems to drift in pitch a little though, which is most noticeable around the 1:40 mark, when the piano riff also joins in, the lowest piano note seems to ring out a bit strangely because of it. It's inherent in the nature of the sound, but maybe it could be touched up slightly.

The snare/percussion coming in under the beat sound like it has just a little too much low frequency content taken out for my taste, not sure whether it needs them, or that the sequence could just be pulled back a bit. It does stand out to me that there's not a lot of transient information in that part of the mix, and maybe it's just what I'm used to hearing... So, just a couple of little things, the rest of the track seems to be flawless. And in recognisable style, which is also a nice thing to have. Well done sir.
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Hades
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

vo0doo wrote:Cool soothing, dream-like atmosphere you've created here, the bass just chugging along under that pad-string combo is surprisingly powerful.

That ethnic flute pad (I think) seems to drift in pitch a little though, which is most noticeable around the 1:40 mark, when the piano riff also joins in, the lowest piano note seems to ring out a bit strangely because of it. It's inherent in the nature of the sound, but maybe it could be touched up slightly.

The snare/percussion coming in under the beat sound like it has just a little too much low frequency content taken out for my taste, not sure whether it needs them, or that the sequence could just be pulled back a bit. It does stand out to me that there's not a lot of transient information in that part of the mix, and maybe it's just what I'm used to hearing... So, just a couple of little things, the rest of the track seems to be flawless. And in recognisable style, which is also a nice thing to have. Well done sir.
thx for the feedback man !

it's not an ethnic flute pad, it's a sampled part of a real duduk, and the drifting is just how it's played, I had no option whatsoever to change it apart from adding some volume modulation.
I have used a sampled duduk before (which is of course much easier), but this sounded quite a bit better than when I used the sampled instrument.
There's also a 2nd duduk somewhere underneath in that sample playing a sustained note, and it was quite hard to still leave that in there without it sounding too much. If I EQ'd it out the lead duduk just sounds far too thin.
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therottencircle
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by therottencircle »

its not the type of Music I'm into.. but..
its super good produced and arranged. great job very nice and clean Track !!!

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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by dubdub »

Mix is not bright enough IMO. A few db added high shelf EQ would do wonders, I think.

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Hades
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

dubdub wrote:Mix is not bright enough IMO. A few db added high shelf EQ would do wonders, I think.
guess we'll have a to disagree on that one,
already used a more exciter-like preset on Satin on the master channel,
and Mattias said my mix was pretty nice and clean when he mastered it.

thx for listening !
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Hades
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

therottencircle wrote:its not the type of Music I'm into.. but..
its super good produced and arranged. great job very nice and clean Track !!!

thx man !
and thx for listening.
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by dubdub »

You might be right, my mixes used to be too dark for a long time and now I always overcompensate :)

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Hades
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

dubdub wrote:You might be right, my mixes used to be too dark for a long time and now I always overcompensate :)
I don't know man. I mean, in a way it's all a matter of taste more than who's right, no ?
But I've been using one of Satins presets on my master for a while now that usually makes things thicker and warmer,
but in the case of this mix, I already had more than enough trouble getting the growling baseline to go together with the kick,
so at some point, I decided to check out some other Satin settings, and ended up using more of an exciter preset,
and then adapted my mix again to the use of that on my master not to make it sound too "hyped" in the highs.
Plus, I'm quite a sucker for clear highs and not too much bass.
My Focals are quite bright monitors, but even downstairs, I have the habit of turning up the highs on my hifi (or even on my iPod).
Which isn't to say my sense of "bright" is the same of your sense of "bright", right ?
I guess I'm just trying to say that I believe that in general, I'm more on the bright side of mix-country than on the dark side, if that makes any sense... :D

But anyway, much more than that, I guess I just have faith in Mattias' judgement more than my own taste. :)
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Vilius J
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Vilius J »

Nice track. Personally like the minimalism in this oone. Keeps it clean

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tsaro
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by tsaro »

Hades wrote: it's not an ethnic flute pad, it's a sampled part of a real duduk, and the drifting is just how it's played, I had no option whatsoever to change it apart from adding some volume modulation.
I have used a sampled duduk before (which is of course much easier), but this sounded quite a bit better than when I used the sampled instrument.
There's also a 2nd duduk somewhere underneath in that sample playing a sustained note, and it was quite hard to still leave that in there without it sounding too much. If I EQ'd it out the lead duduk just sounds far too thin.
Isn't a duduk an ethnic flute? I have no clue tbh, though a quick google search tells me it could be called an ethnic woodwind.... :P

If you want to try and do something about it, you could try loading it in a sampler, pitching it down an octave (or two) and then draw a pitch envelope counter to the pitch drift (while optionally checking on a spectrometer). Tried something like that once or twice with moderate success, though if I'm the only one bothered by it you should probably just leave it :lol:
Last edited by tsaro on Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hades
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

Vilius J wrote:Nice track. Personally like the minimalism in this oone. Keeps it clean

thx for listening. :)
what exactly do you mean with minimalism ?
because there's a lot more going on in the track than you would think from a quick listen.
But yeah, maybe it gives a more simple impression than you'd think.
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Hades
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

vo0doo wrote:
Hades wrote: it's not an ethnic flute pad, it's a sampled part of a real duduk, and the drifting is just how it's played, I had no option whatsoever to change it apart from adding some volume modulation.
I have used a sampled duduk before (which is of course much easier), but this sounded quite a bit better than when I used the sampled instrument.
There's also a 2nd duduk somewhere underneath in that sample playing a sustained note, and it was quite hard to still leave that in there without it sounding too much. If I EQ'd it out the lead duduk just sounds far too thin.
Isn't a duduk an ethnic flute? I have no clue tbh, though a quick google search tells me it could be called an ethnic woodwind.... :P

If you want to try and do something about it, you could try loading it in a sampler, pitching it down an octave (or two) and then draw a pitch envelope counter to the pitch drift. Tried something like that once with moderate success, though if I'm the only one bothered by it you should probably just leave it :lol:
you talked about an "ethnic flute pad", it's not a pad, nor any kind of synthesized sound,
it's an audio sample from a real duduk, that's all I was trying to say, really. ;)
Also, the pitch drift is exactly because it's a real duduk and not some sampled version of the same instrument.
I really like the drifting pitch, it totally makes the instrument come alive. :)
(anyway, that's of course just purely my personal taste, and I can understand some can find it far too much)

Trust me, I tried sampling the part and working on it.
One thing I tried was sampling the low part and trying to loop it, so I could EQ it out of the lead part and use it as some sort of texture background. Couldn't get it to work no matter what I tried.
And when I tried adding the duduk I had in Kontakt, it sounded completely fake compared to the sample, so yeah...
:)
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tsaro
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by tsaro »

Ah right, I always thought a pad could be anything, synthesised or not...
Though I have to admit at first I thought it could also have been something that came out of Absynth/Tassman/Modelonia etc.
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

vo0doo wrote:Ah right, I always thought a pad could be anything, synthesised or not...
Though I have to admit at first I thought it could also have been something that came out of Absynth/Tassman/Modelonia etc.

ow, absolutely, afaik pads can be made out of samples or just be purely synthesized,
it's just that I wanted to make it clear that this one wasn't some preset pad,
but just an audio sample that I used as a lead.
But we're just splitting hairs here... ;)

I have Tassman and Absynth, both wonderful instruments, but I'm pretty sure they could never deliver an audio sample this diverse/detailed/alive as the audio sample I used
(do pay in mind that I already "tamed" the volume changes in the original sample with the volume automation in Live)
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jordanneke
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by jordanneke »

It's a nice track for sure. I haven't got any criticisms at all. Mix is great, the arrangement, everything. Good stuff.

The only thing is that it is very 'Hades'. You did tell me once to push the boat out a bit, and that struck a chord.
I'd like to hear you do something not very 'Hades'.

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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Lost to the Void »

I don`t think this was ready to be mastered to be honest.
I like all the non beat related stuff.

To me, a common problem with your tracks is the drums never fit the rest, they always feel really separate, almost like an afterthought.

In this track the kick is really thumpy and jarring against the nice ambient and melodic elements, it`s very much sitting in the low mids and mids, where there is empty space for transients, so it is dominating the mix. Would be fine in a banging Tool track, but in this piece it`s distracting and weirdly feels inappropriate.
The low end really isn`t backing up the kick at all, which sort of adds to the issue, it`s sitting there throbbing, but it has no real weight in the subs at all (ideally this would have been addressed in the mastering).
The shakers, again stick out against the other elements just seeming to be arbitrarily there as part of the beat but not part of the whole, and the snare is really dry and a little too loud, weighting the groove too much towards the 2nd and 4th beat.

IMO this really straight beat doesn`t flow or groove or compliment the track at all, it`s stiff, dry, with no swing or humanising element, and to me, feels like (I think I`ve said this about another track) that you made a great piece of music, felt it needed to be techno, and stuck a 4x4 under it at the last minute.

With music this fluid a more fluid and grooving beat might work more effectively, something with some shuffle and chug, and much more interest and hook to go against the flowing, breathing melodic parts. It would probably work really well with a drum and bass beat actually, but for techno I would avoid a straight 4x4, or if you are sold on the doof doof, much stronger and more interesting mid-range percussion with some really swingy motion to tie everything together between the diaphanous nature of the flute etc.

All the non beat stuff is beautiful.
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Mattias »

This is good criticism. I just realized what I felt about listening to your tracks but was never able to put into words now when Steve mentioned it.
That there is a feel of that the drums were "constructed afterwards" to make it feel like it was techno. Perhaps you should try to approach your tracks from a
different angle (non-techno?) ?

Oh Tom isn't a huge fan of weight in the bottom :)
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Lost to the Void »

Mattias wrote:
Oh Tom isn't a huge fan of weight in the bottom :)

But.............. Techno..
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Re: The Age Of Innocence

Post by Hades »

Mattias wrote:This is good criticism. I just realized what I felt about listening to your tracks but was never able to put into words now when Steve mentioned it.
That there is a feel of that the drums were "constructed afterwards" to make it feel like it was techno. Perhaps you should try to approach your tracks from a
different angle (non-techno?) ?

Oh Tom isn't a huge fan of weight in the bottom :)
question is which angle.
I've already said that to me it feels almost impossible to make ambient, because I always feel it lacks any form of structure. There's no beat in most ambient, and the lack of a constant pulse totally makes me feel uneasy in some way.
And DnB, sure, I'd love that, but I can't make DnB.
Only other option I see is more broken beats perhaps ?
But I need a beat or I can't start a track, it's as simple as that, really.
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