It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:47 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]





Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Levels
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:45 am 
Offline
skaghead
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:30 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Pittsburgh
https://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/view ... hp?t=74832


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Levels
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:58 am 
Offline
skaghead
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:30 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Pittsburgh
Those are my go to articles on gain staging.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Levels
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:25 am 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8673
Proper gain staging, sympathetic subtractive EQ and correct placement/choice of the right sounds for the mix in the first place (mixing by sound choice)
Get these 3 things right, and everything else becomes easy.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:26 pm 
Offline
beast
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:48 am
Posts: 94
Location: France
Hi,

A simple question which I do not find an answer.

Should i've my master channel at 0db when i produce and lower the volume at -6dB for exporting.

Or produce at -6db and don't touch anything for exporting ?

Thanks guys for your answer.

Best.

_________________
English is not my first language. So, sorry if i don't speak perfectly.
Thanks Subsekt for existing !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:57 pm 
Offline
Weedy

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:05 pm
Posts: 3044
Location: Leeds
Produce to -6dB, it's a better habit to have.

_________________


Archive of all my mixes HERE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:53 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8673
Tony wrote:
Hi,

A simple question which I do not find an answer.

Should i've my master channel at 0db when i produce and lower the volume at -6dB for exporting.

Or produce at -6db and don't touch anything for exporting ?

Thanks guys for your answer.

Best.


Always always always have your master channel at 0db.

DO NOT then lower the volume to -6.

Get in to the habit of proper gain staging, use your channel faders to keep your mix peaking at NO HIGHER than -6db
My production monitors are set to give me 78dbA (a comfortable long term listening level for me) when working at -15dbFS RMS, and peaks sometimes hit -6, there is no need to have your master channel any hotter, if it is, you can almost bet that your gain staging is fucked, and you are driving your effects chains too high.

It`s a good practice to get an SPL meter, make a tune so that your RMS level is at a constant you will work to as a standard (say around -15, or -12 if you like a little more squeeze), then set your monitors to a level that is comfortable.
Not down the reading on your SPL meter.

then every time you make music, try to work to the same RMS level, with your monitors set to the same level, and check your SPL meter to keep an eye that you are working at your comfort level (mine is 78db for production, I go louder for working out some things temporarily).

Eventually your ears will attune to this level and then you will naturally start to produce to this level without the need to reference your meters. It will help you to get good gain staging, more consistent dynamics (you`ll know when you have crushed shit too much) and working at consistent levels means you start to familiarise your ears with what sounds correct at this level (especially if you reference listen to other productions at this level), and your EQ work will get better.
There are only benefits to working this way.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:54 pm 
Offline
Unfriended

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:18 am
Posts: 35
I guess keeping peaks under 6dBFS is generally a good idea. I tend to work with my peaks at about -10 dBFS. I work with outboard though so my gain staging has that in mind. My converters are setup at +4dBu = -16dBFS

Going with the idea that you'd want to be hitting around 0dBu RMS in the analog domain, you'd want to hit around -20dBFS RMS in if your setup were like mine. And say your dynamic crest is 12dB, this leaves enough room before clipping. (Most gear clips around +20dBu)

My Analog Keys and Virus TI both seems to of been designed with those levels in mind. Even my MicroBrute works perfectly at those levels. I think it is what most have in mind. It is amazing having everything come together and not having to play with the faders when writing.

Anyway, how does it all matter if you intend on being 100% ITB? Many plugins still perform unreliably with too-hot levels. And there is nothing worse than using all the faders in the areas of little resolution or slammed at +6. And if you're working with any creative routing it is not as simple as just "turning them all down" or instantiating a utility plugin. Keep the levels low, and don't try to work at "mastering loudness" levels from the start.

The only DAW I am beginning to trust the bundled DSP in is Live. They've redone and added some important DSP. Including the EQ Eight and the Auto Filter in 9.5. Great stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:38 pm 
Offline
Slowy J
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:47 am
Posts: 1316
Location: Berlin
Always leave your master channel at 0db. Your losing resolution otherwise.


.

_________________
tunes: http://soundcloud.com/michaellovatt
blog: http://www.1000cutz.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:41 pm 
Offline
broke
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 12:09 pm
Posts: 30
My technique is to run a limiter while i mix , leaving the master at 0db. much more fun and you get a better idea of how its going to end up sounding. But there are no rules , what ever works for you and delivers the results you are looking for .

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:45 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8673
Never never never run a limiter when you mix kids.

If you want to effect dynamics on your master buss, please use compression and not limiting.
Your mastering engineer and your audience will love you more.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:20 pm 
Offline
Slowy J
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 12:44 pm
Posts: 1316
Location: Horsham, UK
Running a limiter with +14 gain is the best thing to mix into really. Maybe +22 if you're going for that trendy distorted shizz.

_________________
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:20 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8673
If the the meter moves then you lose
0db Dynamic Range wins the beatport techno competition

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:10 am 
Offline
endless
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:47 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Iceland
I mix into a limiter as I pretty much mix and write at the same time, only 1-2 db gain reduction if any at all. I just use it to push the volume up since I keep every channel in the mixer pretty low. The kick is usually at -18. Seems to work ok here although I am no mixing expert, I do turn it off before exporting the final mix though.

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/oskar81

"People are stupid" Gegard Mousasi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:44 am 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8673
Why a limiter?
Why use the worst culprit for distortion and destruction of dynamics and then sit that shit over your master ripping up to 2db of life out of your music, tainting your ears to how the final sound might be, skewing your opinion of the final dynamics, and blarging your all important transient information.
It makes no sense.
I master all day every day and the limiter stays off right up until the last moment when I need to tickle for final level. My ears love me because of it.

What`s wrong with compression?
The loudness war is over.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:08 am 
Offline
endless
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:47 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Iceland
Lost to the Void wrote:
Why a limiter?
Why use the worst culprit for distortion and destruction of dynamics and then sit that shit over your master ripping up to 2db of life out of your music, tainting your ears to how the final sound might be, skewing your opinion of the final dynamics, and blarging your all important transient information.
It makes no sense.
I master all day every day and the limiter stays off right up until the last moment when I need to tickle for final level. My ears love me because of it.

What`s wrong with compression?
The loudness war is over.


You know what I'm not even 100% sure why, I have a very short attention span and if shit ain't banging from the start I just zone out and start tweaking individual sounds for six hours and eventually get sick of the loop and start yet another one or close the program and do other things..... Current folder I'm working in is 155 songs that are "work in progress". Ok a few of them are done but lot's of half finished ones and countless 16 bar loops.

But your post earlier made me think and I actually opened up Live and threw Sdc on the master to see if I could use that to push up the levels like I use a limiter for, but once I started adding more channels the master went over 0 db, guess I can just turn down the make up gain but I eventually put a brickwall limiter there to keep it out of the red. Think it might also having something to do with me being a lazy fucking cunt :D

It's a bad habit and all I know that but it seem's to work for me, fooling myself that it's actually sounding "good". The reason why I started doing it this way was to have some idea of what the tune would sound like after mastering.

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/oskar81

"People are stupid" Gegard Mousasi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:45 am 
Offline
Pig
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:51 pm
Posts: 120
Wiu wrote:
Running a limiter with +14 gain is the best thing to mix into really. Maybe +22 if you're going for that trendy distorted shizz.


:lol: :shock: :? :lol:

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:46 am 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8673
arkos wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
Why a limiter?
Why use the worst culprit for distortion and destruction of dynamics and then sit that shit over your master ripping up to 2db of life out of your music, tainting your ears to how the final sound might be, skewing your opinion of the final dynamics, and blarging your all important transient information.
It makes no sense.
I master all day every day and the limiter stays off right up until the last moment when I need to tickle for final level. My ears love me because of it.

What`s wrong with compression?
The loudness war is over.


You know what I'm not even 100% sure why, I have a very short attention span and if shit ain't banging from the start I just zone out and start tweaking individual sounds for six hours and eventually get sick of the loop and start yet another one or close the program and do other things..... Current folder I'm working in is 155 songs that are "work in progress". Ok a few of them are done but lot's of half finished ones and countless 16 bar loops.

But your post earlier made me think and I actually opened up Live and threw Sdc on the master to see if I could use that to push up the levels like I use a limiter for, but once I started adding more channels the master went over 0 db, guess I can just turn down the make up gain but I eventually put a brickwall limiter there to keep it out of the red. Think it might also having something to do with me being a lazy fucking cunt :D

It's a bad habit and all I know that but it seem's to work for me, fooling myself that it's actually sounding "good". The reason why I started doing it this way was to have some idea of what the tune would sound like after mastering.


So just bad practice all along then.
Turn down your channel faders if you are hitting zero.
There is no reason why you should be hitting zero with a comp on the master unless your channels are also blargged and your general gain practice is poop.

Secondly, all you are doing is finding out what your music will sound like with shitty mastering, or maximisation to be precise, because limiting is not mastering.
If the final aim is to have your music mastered shittily, then I guess this is the right way to go about things.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:02 am 
Offline
endless
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:47 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Iceland
Lost to the Void wrote:
So just bad practice all along then.
Turn down your channel faders if you are hitting zero.
There is no reason why you should be hitting zero with a comp on the master unless your channels are also blargged and your general gain practice is poop.

Secondly, all you are doing is finding out what your music will sound like with shitty mastering, or maximisation to be precise, because limiting is not mastering.
If the final aim is to have your music mastered shittily, then I guess this is the right way to go about things.


Ofcoz it's shittily mastered, I'm doing it myself :D The gain staging is fine everything is under -18 on the mixer channels and none plugins are overloading... I was putting +18 db make up gain on the compressor because I'm lazy as fuck :D

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/oskar81

"People are stupid" Gegard Mousasi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:08 pm 
Offline
refusenik

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:12 am
Posts: 298
Just turn up your speakers if you want your track to "bang" from the get-go. Also, you don't need to have your channels at -18. -10 is a good standard for a kick in techno. But then it's all relative anyway, so it doesn't really matter much. It is totally ridiculous to have your channels at -18 and then add +18 on your master though ... If I am understanding you correctly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the master volume
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:22 pm 
Offline
endless
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:47 pm
Posts: 647
Location: Iceland
terly wrote:
Just turn up your speakers if you want your track to "bang" from the get-go. Also, you don't need to have your channels at -18. -10 is a good standard for a kick in techno. But then it's all relative anyway, so it doesn't really matter much. It is totally ridiculous to have your channels at -18 and then add +18 on your master though ... If I am understanding you correctly.


Well that's subjective isn't it ? A article I read sometime ago states that -18 is optimal for digital audio. And to my ears everything just sounds less congested/cluttered with everything low in the mixer in Live but you know that's just me and my opinion :D

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/oskar81

"People are stupid" Gegard Mousasi.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
skymiles v1.1 designed by CodeMiles Team -TemplatesDragon-.