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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:15 am 
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The bass man has spoken.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:50 am 
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Lag wrote:
The bass man has spoken.


That Dirty Bass of a man.

:)

Good info thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:02 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:04 pm 
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Question about Buss Compression in relation to this. Should I Buss similar frequencies such as BASS and KICK or does this create too much of a similarity . Or do I take the approach with Buss like one for Drums(Should Kick go with the rest of the drums), one for Bass , one for Synths Etc.

I have tried different ways but not sure gives the best result.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:13 pm 
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Depends on the style really. If you aim for aggressive old school sounding audio then bus the kick and bass sounds together for sure. More controlled results you might want to group sounds in what category they "belong". Meaning to your ear and idea of the track, not in instrumental theory.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:30 pm 
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Mattias wrote:
Depends on the style really. If you aim for aggressive old school sounding audio then bus the kick and bass sounds together for sure. More controlled results you might want to group sounds in what category they "belong". Meaning to your ear and idea of the track, not in instrumental theory.


Okay good so there is no real right or wrong way to go about this. But depends what you are going for ..

I have done it a few different ways. like having a hat buss , kick buss, bass buss , snare buss if I have multiple elements of each in a track.

Thanks Mattias always felt I wasn't doing it the best way and was missing out

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:09 pm 
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bergertron wrote:
Question about Buss Compression in relation to this. Should I Buss similar frequencies such as BASS and KICK or does this create too much of a similarity . Or do I take the approach with Buss like one for Drums(Should Kick go with the rest of the drums), one for Bass , one for Synths Etc.

I have tried different ways but not sure gives the best result.


It's all about context.

Most of the time I don't buss the kick and bass together, and I'll tell you why.
The kick and the bass are the most important elements in dance music, so I want maximum control over each, and bussing them together, unless in specific instances, mashes them together, removing precision of control. And reducing clarity. I like really big bass, so I avoid this at all costs.
I tend more to have a compressor over the master channel, and mix in to that, which provides all the glue I need.
You don't need to buss anything just for the sake of it, or because you think you should. Use a buss when you are trying to achieve something specific.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:12 pm 
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thanks for the responses .. theory is clear for me but usually my main problem about sub freqs is what happens between 30 - 100 hz.

i know that every case is particular and depens from the context but ..

Normally you roll off kick and sub below 25-40 (with 12-24) or what is cutted is one of them until the others fundamental starts, to fit them in that short and problematic range ..

for example .. kick fundamental on 60hz and kick sub on 40 hz .. would you roll off kick until 60hz to let sub power at 40 hz or cut both below 35-40 and them hole the sub at 60 where the kick fundamental is…

sorry if my english is not so good but unless this question can be a foolishness, normally is my main problem so .. i always have the sensation that let fitted but with less powerful and if i let more freqs for get heavy bass sensation it seems to be muddy and confused that zone ...


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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Useful thread - thanks for question onpointsix.

I'll wait for the resident experts to answer this definitely!!! :D

But have to say - why don't you try both and see what works in the context of the track you're making?

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:42 pm 
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Koichi as i have commented at the end of the post, i always have the sensation that in both cases if i roll off a lot it seems to be fitted but subs loose weight and if i let more freqs for get heavy bass sensation it seems to be muddy and confused that zone ...


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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:39 pm 
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onepointsix wrote:
thanks for the responses .. theory is clear for me


Clearly not, otherwise you wouldn`t be asking the same question again after having been given the answer.

I doubt your monitors even cover 40hz to any adequate level, so it looks to me like your approach is wrong from the get go.

pretty much everything you need to know has been covered in this thread, go read it again, then practice and experiment and eventually the theory will become clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
onepointsix wrote:
thanks for the responses .. theory is clear for me


Clearly not, otherwise you wouldn`t be asking the same question again after having been given the answer.

I doubt your monitors even cover 40hz to any adequate level, so it looks to me like your approach is wrong from the get go.

pretty much everything you need to know has been covered in this thread, go read it again, then practice and experiment and eventually the theory will become clear.


sorry if my question has sounded repeatedly .. as always it is more a problem of language translation of technical concepts. Anyway thanks for your answer Void.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:06 am 
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Quote:
i this Rrose track unless has a great low end, both kick and bassline are so clear.. i think bassline is not sidechaied and is sounding at the same time than kick.. and still both are so powerful. THis is what i asking for.


Well I have a nice little trick to do this. Maybe it's against all the rules of music production (if there even are any :p ), but with me it sounds nice.

I do use sidechain to do this. But I just sidechain the frequencies at which the kick is hitting with a reasonably high q-setting. Then I roll off the heavy subby part of the kick a bit. This way it seems to sound like your (sub)bass is still going all out when your kick hits. Sometimes you can hear a tiny little bit of SC, but that's just a matter of finetuning. Just use a spectrum analyser on the bass and kick to do this. Or maybe better, use your ears (something I've learned lurking around here :mrgreen: )

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:50 am 
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vasQ wrote:
Quote:
i this Rrose track unless has a great low end, both kick and bassline are so clear.. i think bassline is not sidechaied and is sounding at the same time than kick.. and still both are so powerful. THis is what i asking for.


Well I have a nice little trick to do this. Maybe it's against all the rules of music production (if there even are any :p ), but with me it sounds nice.

I do use sidechain to do this. But I just sidechain the frequencies at which the kick is hitting with a reasonably high q-setting. Then I roll off the heavy subby part of the kick a bit. This way it seems to sound like your (sub)bass is still going all out when your kick hits. Sometimes you can hear a tiny little bit of SC, but that's just a matter of finetuning. Just use a spectrum analyser on the bass and kick to do this. Or maybe better, use your ears (something I've learned lurking around here :mrgreen: )



If it works and it causes no phase, dynamic or excess sub problems, then it is valid. Anything goes really, most problems can be solved with EQ as the last part of the chain.
Your version essentially sounds like you are making your own DIY dynamic EQ system.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:16 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
vasQ wrote:
Quote:
i this Rrose track unless has a great low end, both kick and bassline are so clear.. i think bassline is not sidechaied and is sounding at the same time than kick.. and still both are so powerful. THis is what i asking for.


Well I have a nice little trick to do this. Maybe it's against all the rules of music production (if there even are any :p ), but with me it sounds nice.

I do use sidechain to do this. But I just sidechain the frequencies at which the kick is hitting with a reasonably high q-setting. Then I roll off the heavy subby part of the kick a bit. This way it seems to sound like your (sub)bass is still going all out when your kick hits. Sometimes you can hear a tiny little bit of SC, but that's just a matter of finetuning. Just use a spectrum analyser on the bass and kick to do this. Or maybe better, use your ears (something I've learned lurking around here :mrgreen: )



If it works and it causes no phase, dynamic or excess sub problems, then it is valid. Anything goes really, most problems can be solved with EQ as the last part of the chain.
Your version essentially sounds like you are essentially making your own DIY dynamic EQ system.


Haha yes, It's actually pretty funny. You can see the eq curve bounce up and down when my track plays. It isn't really sidechain. I use the automation lines to replicate a sidechain signal. :)I found this out yesterday. Also, for the moment I can only use my Beyer headphones, everything sounds good in that shit, it might sound totally different on my monitors.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:53 am 
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to bus.... or not to bus.....that is the question

advantages of bussing = helps glue mix together better

disadvantage = mix gets too glued together and has no dynamics and sounds flat and boring

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:07 am 
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soulstar606 wrote:
to bus.... or not to bus.....that is the question

advantages of bussing = helps glue mix together better

disadvantage = mix gets too glued together and has no dynamics and sounds flat and boring

I always feel that . sometimes we just should trust our ears instead of techniques tbh .


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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:27 am 
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soulstar606 wrote:

advantages of bussing = helps glue mix together better

disadvantage = mix gets too glued together and has no dynamics and sounds flat and boring


Absolutely not true.
Wether or not a buss helps to glue a mix together or affect dynamics depends entirely on what you do to that buss.

For example, if you were to put an expander on a buss, it would increase and not decrease the dynamics.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
bergertron wrote:
You don't need to buss anything just for the sake of it, or because you think you should. Use a buss when you are trying to achieve something specific.


Using busses is advanced stuff......from my experience..i'm just starting to see the reason to buss certain things...and how you can use bussees to glue the sound together.or vice verca....to lets certain busses breathe and sqish other ones....knowing what to bus and what to do to that buss is advanced stuff....that takes along time to be able to do that effectively

this is why you can ruin a mix with busses or put it over the top. if you dont know what your doing and just bussing stuff for the sake of it...it'
s like thick sword cut...you have to know how to use it and where..and what you are trying to achieve from it.
Quote:
Absolutely not true.
you mean..absolutely not true always...i'll just add that on for you

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy bass music EQ on sub / kick
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:35 pm 
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No , I mean what I said, but I can correct it based on your post

here let me try

soulstar606 wrote:

advantages of bussing = helps buss tracks together
disadvantage = you might not know what you are doing


there you go, corrected

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