Do you use mastering effects while writing

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Lost to the Void »

Yeah a little compression on bass to control the dynamics is fine, there are plenty of good software compressors that handle bass very well.
I think limiting in a track/channel context is something you should rarely do.
I generally only ever use high ratio compression (same as limiting) in areas where I have wacky effects on something causing feedback and resonant ringing etc. In which case I`ll slap on some multiband and control the offending frequency band.
Never brickwall though.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Planar »

I often mix with a limiter and and filter on my master channel and constantly turn them on and off. The limiter with a little gain reduction I find helpful to determine if my bass is too loud- if the bass is overtaking everything when lowering the threshold, I know to turn it down in the mix a little. It's a bad habit I should get out of. The filter I use to concentrate on different parts of the frequency range- mainly the low end.

I tried to master my last track properly (I usually just whack a limiter on it) with a trial of Ozone and found it difficult. I found going through the process with separate plugs a much better experience, I just used EQ, a multi-band comp and then a limiter.

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Mattias »

Only time I ever use limiter in production stage is to tame snares if I use them a lot in a track.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by mjudge »

I don't see any problem with mixing into mastering effects if it gets you the sound you're after. For me though, if I slap a limiter on the master bus I get tempted to push it hard. Most of the records I really like aren't mixed like that, and that big overstated sound isn't really me.

But sometimes if I accidentally create something really stupid sounding, it can be entertaining to throw a limiter on the master bus and crank it to a new level of stupid.

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Mattias »

It's not good to use mastering effects on the master on the track while working with it. Because in the end it doesn't actually give you the sound you're after at all and complicates things when its going to mastering. To use mastering effects on the 2bus while working on the track is like intentionally turn your monitors off and connect your laptop speakers or random mediocre home sound speakers :D
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by msl »

Different strokes for different folks. I mix into a limiter and saturation (tape sim). Limiter comes off when it goes to mastering, saturation stays on. Limiter allows me to know how it will react to mastering, bass etc. Also protects my monitors.

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Mslwte »

No rules. Unless you want to do it the way everyone else does it :P
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Wiu »

I always put a limiter on my master just to stop the horrid crack noise that my audio interface/mixer makes if anything peaks over 0db. I don't push the limiter at all though and I remove it once I've got something going and lower the levels/mix. Basically it's so I don't explode my monitors. Only other things I have on the master channel is Logic's metering plugin and a bypassed direction mixer set to mono so I can check the mono mix from time to time.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Mattias »

If you use a limiter on the master then you have no way to know how the mix will actually sound, just saying.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by s-tek »

...and if the limiter is also working and ride your mix with some dB and is not only to safe from peaks and intersample peaks, you will destroy transients(depends on how much the limiter is working). this also means you lost the punch of your song! ;)

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Mono-xID »

I never got anything online the master channel.I Do what i can to do the best mix possible and let my trustworthy mastering engineer Do his thing.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by kingrad »

Some great responses here thanks. I think its probably not good practice but I had read about people doing this, can't quite remember where (possibly something associated with sample magic - put compressor on master i think). I had an earlier version of ozone and found I didn't have the knowledge to really use it well yet without everything sounding completely over processed so I never used it. I got an upgrade offer recently I couldn't resist and bought the 5 version as I had read amazing things. I messed around with some of the house presets and loved how I could achieve a wider sound on the higher frequencies and quite a bit more punch in low end. Problem is it sweetens your ears to the sound and when you switch it off again your tempted to leave it back on. I definitely wouldn't leave it on though if I gave it to a mastering engineer. Anyway I think our experienced producers on the forum are correct and its probably bad practice. Just wasn't sure if it was one of those rules to broken type things that techno is often associated with. I would love to put the time into learning the craft as many have mentioned here.

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Wiu »

In my case, like I say, I don't push the limiter at all. No gain or anything. And it's removed as soon as I've got something going. Basically for the first session on a track my volumes seem to always be a bit high and peaking. A limiter simply protects my monitors. After a while I tend to drop all the faders and start fresh without the limiter slowly working them back up. It's just how I work and never really done me any harm. And I'm an unprofessional cunt anyway :D
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by kingrad »

Mattias wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:If you are using it live then it isn't mastering.
Mastering is mainly Eq work, and why have an EQ on your master??
Just EQ the mix properly.

If you mean, do you use a limiter on your master channel, personally no, why would you?

I do run a compressor on the master channel and mix into the compressor for specific effects, but with gentle gain reduction, and i run a mastering meter too, always handy.
This.

I would also like to add that I reckon many people do put up some compressors, EQs and stuff, and god forbid, Ozone on their master bus while they write and this is a huge cause to why many tracks sounds crap today. It's often beyond rescue if its overdone.
Yes, I think I know what you mean, I think of it as a really fatiguing sound - you know your ears just get tired of being bombarded by too much reverb, compression and also exciters on the tops after too many similar tracks. Don't get me started on how harsh I find commercial pop music mixes that your subjected to in say a loud shop, that really does my head in - (man I sound old)

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Mono-xID »

I always take care of the volume of my channels and i Don't go into the red on plug-in outputs.I always try to keep all the elements balanced and to leave enough headroom on the master.To check how the Track will sound with a decent loudness, i just crank up my speakers.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by s-tek »

I think the 3 most important things for a good mix are
* EQing - each instrument and/or sound needs his own space and frequencies. you do this most of the time with highpass/lowpass filters on each channel or peak/bell/notch as well
* Leveling - each instrument and/ or sound needs his own level for a good glued mix. you do this with channelfaders, reverbs, delays and panning
* Clean your EFX - each efx like reverbs or delays needs low and highcuts too. an example: keep in mind, that there is no reverb in nature in the high frequencies or in the low end. so I cut all reverbs under 300-500Hz and over 5-8Khz (depends on the trak) but thats only my way.

sometimes also usefull are
* to gate/ sidechaining - good examples are "kik meets bassline", "percussions and hihats meets low end" (you can also gate your reverbs, delays and other efx to clean it (like point 3 of most important things)
* volume automation or limiting your freak out synthesizers and percussion sounds. works sometimes also with gates
* keep the channels low and keep in mind that all channels summing to a much louder signal at the end of your Mixer/ DAW. if you think the trak is to low, make your monitoring louder and not the trak!!! :D

and last but not least a quote of bruce swedien(michael jackson engineer):
compression is for kids! :mrgreen:

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Lost to the Void »

msl wrote:. Limiter allows me to know how it will react to mastering, bass etc.

.
No it doesn't though., because the engineer more than likely will be doing spectral correction prior to any final limiting, which will change the behaviour of the mastering comp, and limiter.

The problem with mixing into a limiter is that you are ruining transient information, and have no idea how your transients are behaving. So come removal and sending to mastering engineer, there may be all sorts of mix problems hidden by the limiter which probably should have been dealt with in-channel.


It's mental so many people in techno talk about this, you just wouldn't get this behaviour if you went to any professional studio to mix down your music.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Lost to the Void »

Also, if you need to place a limiter on your master channel to make sure nothing goes over zero then Alarm bells should be ringing, you are probably midi into the master channel too loud. Drop all your channel levels to a more reasonable setting so you have headroom on the master channel.
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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by s-tek »

totally right!

and also: not each engineer working with limiters(like myself) there are much more ways to pump up a track. =)

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Re: Do you use mastering effects while writing

Post by Planar »

OK, I'm convinced. No more mixing into a limiter for me.


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