Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

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helloitsmeagain
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Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by helloitsmeagain »

Up till this point i pretty much slapped a linear phase at the end of every chain and then dialed in a brutal low pass and high pass plus whatever other cuts i deemed necessary :oops: ...what can i say, i watch too many youtube tutorials by amateurs with screen recording software.

Anyway, i've been delving into EQ a lot recently and begin to believe it might be better to just keep the linear phase EQ for the master and stick with minium phase for all others.

But then i see plugins like FabFilters Pro-Q and wonder...

You guys have thoughts on this? I mean, of course you do. I imagine you think about this a lot. Properly an unhealthy amount, which is why I'm asking you.
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Mattias
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

I wrote something about this a while ago, lets see if I can find it.

I found it but it was out of context so here goes again:

Leave the Linear Phase EQ:ing to those who can handle it (it's a very dangerous tool especially making deep cuts in the low end etc since it causes pre-ringing). Linear Phase is mostly used as a "rescue" or "must smoothen highs" effect outside of production. In production I say these kinds of EQ:s have no value.

Use Minimum Phase (MP) EQ (infinite impulse response IIR) or Digital EQ algorithms.
The IIR type filtering is to prefer when you work with low frequencies and it also "mimics" the nature of how sounds behave in the real world.

MP is very good for putting areas in the frequencies spectrum back or forth in a mix. You will distort the phase up / down as much as you boost / attenuate the frequencies. The whole phase thing in these types of EQs (nearly all of them) is also what creates a certain "EQ sound". For digital filtering based on IIR dont really dont have a "sound" and shitloads of these types of EQs can sound identical to each-other. They are ofetn just referred to as "digital".
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Planar
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Planar »

This is something I've never considered.

I've been demo-ing various Fabfilter plugs with an eye on buying some in a sale or 2nd hand. Pro-Q has quickly become a bit of a go-to EQ, but now I'm questioning its usefulness as an EQ for all tasks. The manual isn't really very clear on whether its default mode is linear phase or not- I know it's other modes are.

If pro-q is a bad choice for mixing, are there any other VST's I should be trying? Ideally something free...

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Mattias
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

The non-latency mode is not Linear Phase (default). In HQ mode its Linear Phase.
Pro-Q is a great EQ.
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KulturIndustry
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by KulturIndustry »

Can someone explain the difference between a linear phase EQ and other Eqs? Sorry I'm kind of dumb when it comes to EQs (and probably a host of other things too).

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brian
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by brian »

I use logic and have always just used a linear phase eq coz that's the one that opens when you click on "eq" tab at the top of each channel, so i take it from reading this i should consider using something else.

I've never really delved into different types of eq, so don't know what types are the best to use

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

KulturIndustry wrote:Can someone explain the difference between a linear phase EQ and other Eqs? Sorry I'm kind of dumb when it comes to EQs (and probably a host of other things too).
Linear Phase EQ masks or "wont change" the phase when you boost / cut the selected frequencies. Transients smears and thus becomes "softer". There are obviously use for this but not really in a production situation unless one is very experienced with handling EQs (which many isn't). Linear Phase EQs is also more transparaent and smooth when you lift frequencies. Say you want a transparent boost from 7kHz and upwards with a shelving filter that actually sounds like you dont "change" the sound from 7kHz but instead boost the volume gently, then that is a good example of what a Linear Phase EQ can do good.
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Lost to the Void
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

What Matty said, essentially. I use linear in mastering, but not much any other time.

Incidentally I use this EQ for mix duties, http://dmgaudio.com/products_equality.php
The care and atttention that have gone into this, blow away the Fabfilter in my opinion.
I think it`s one of the best EQ`s.
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helloitsmeagain
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by helloitsmeagain »

KulturIndustry wrote:Can someone explain the difference between a linear phase EQ and other Eqs? Sorry I'm kind of dumb when it comes to EQs (and probably a host of other things too).
check out soundonsound. their series on synthesis. i think it's like chapter 10 or something. they start talking about how EQ does much more than just boost or cut a sound but changes it in some very fundamental ways.

when i started looking into this, it turns out that Linear Phase EQ (because of the way they programmed) add ringing, some of which is masked while the instrument plays, but it's present even when the instrument is silent.

having said that, minimum phase cause phasing. the more extreme the use, the more extreme the phasing.

this is my very basic understanding and i'm simplifying things a lot here.

the way i see it, it's probably best for me to now use minimum phase on all and reserve linear for mastering. should i ever actually finish a track...
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by disparate »

The way I've always seen it is that the phase linearity must come at a cost - whether it's in the analogue or digital domain, phase changes are an inescapable part of how a normal filter works so that magic must be doing something else to get around it...

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

helloitsmeagain wrote:
the way i see it, it's probably best for me to now use minimum phase on all and reserve linear for mastering. should i ever actually finish a track...
Again, Linear Phase is only a proper tool in the hands of those that knows when to use it. Go with Minimum Phase also when mastering. The actual phasing you get by boosting and cutting with a Minimum Phase EQ (as mentioned, is an emulation of how analog filters works) is and acts as the life and body of the EQ. Basically phasing is distortion.
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KulturIndustry
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by KulturIndustry »

thanks for all the explanations, I'll definitely steer clear of it until I really know what am I doing, which will probably be never (ha ha) and I'll check out the SoundonSound series one of you mentioned.

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brian
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by brian »

What's the difference between a linear phase and parametric eq, they both look identical, in logic anyway.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

Linear phase is the behaviour of the EQ, it is still parametric
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Planar »

Mattias wrote:The non-latency mode is not Linear Phase (default). In HQ mode its Linear Phase.
Pro-Q is a great EQ.

Thanks Mattias. I'll go back to my previous position of lusting after it (and pro-c, pro-l and pro-g)... they're not the most affordable suite of plugs :cry:

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by brian »

Lost to the Void wrote:Linear phase is the behaviour of the EQ, it is still parametric
Ah right, nice one

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Planar »

Fabfilter posted this a few days ago that covers this subject pretty well:-

youtu.be/efKabAQQsPQ

KulturIndustry
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by KulturIndustry »

^ awesome. Thanks! I think I'll need to watch that two or three more times to wrap my head around really understanding that.

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by ashley BORG »

Planar wrote:Fabfilter posted this a few days ago that covers this subject pretty well:-
That video is really helpful, will probs also take me a few watches to fully understand, but great reference.

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

That is a very good video to explain LP, MP and phasing etc. Perfect
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