Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

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ashley BORG
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by ashley BORG »

Mattias wrote:That is a very good video to explain LP, MP and phasing etc. Perfect
Phew... Good to hear the pro's amongst us agree, EQ seems to be the biggest grey area in music production, with so many opinions and counter opinions about.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

It's not really a grey area mate.
The different types of EQ phase don't really change how you apply EQ.
They just change when to apply the different phasing types.
And essentially it is a case of use your ears.

Subtractive EQ is the absolute basis of good production. The foundation rock.
Well, that and sound choice.

But the principles of it are fairly simple.
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

I think my point being, don`t get too caught up in audiospeak, Subtractive EQ is a simple process, but one that can be applied in a very complicated way.
Just learn/practice it, and it will serve you well, the better you get at it, the better your mixes will be.
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by volkaloba »

Planar thank you for this vid.

I own some fafilter plugins but my most favorite is the Pro-Q because of the visual aspect and the possibility to 'cue' what you are filtering out in realtime. I can't emphasize enough what a neat feature that is. Another thing which I very like when compared to other EQ's in the 100 euro range, is that minuscule editing is very easy to do. The layout of the buttons, the color changes with each band and the the 'cueing' option all contribute to that.

I never touched upon the linear phase against minimal phase issue before but was always interested in. I always thought it was something for high level engineers and for electronic music it isn't something that has much added value. Boy, what could I have been wrong. Very interesting stuff. I am now going to some old tracks and trying to adjust the phase modes to see if particular bass and percussion parts can be better mixed, thereby effectively attenuating muddiness which seems to be chronic problem in most my tracks. Hehe, this latter problem seems to be a chronic issue for most producers in my experience ;)

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by gavisthename »

How much to you guys dip from tracks db wise and how many dips can you get away with? Because we are mostly techno guys here we are dealing with sounds and not instruments so we don't have to worry about something sounding natural? Is it ok to cut as much as you want? Do only phase issues occur with boosting?

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

Cutting too much leaves a very digital and unnatural sound. Obviously we deal in unnatural sounds but they get to our ears naturally, and need to fit together in a way that has them blending together nicely.

Sharp high q cuts sound worse overall than shallow curves.
And if you are doing a lot of shallow cuts and notches then you may need to reassess what you are trying to shoe horn in to your track.
Some things simply won't fit.
Sympathetic EQ practice begins with the choice of sound.

Boosting is fine in some cases, but it is generally better to cut what you don't need and then simply turn up the volume.

Lots of boosting leads to honking, uncomfortable messy mixes, and also your headroom starts to disappear fast.
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by gavisthename »

With talk of subtractive eq in this thread I went crazy on a couple of tracks cutting loads with masses of dips. Although an experienced engineer reading that is having the same sensation a cat would when you stroke it's fur the wrong way, it actually made the tracks sound very clean. I guess I'm gonna have to do a balancing act with clarity and subtlety.

Any recommendations for an eq that sounds good with lots of cuts? I see Mr Voidloss recommended dmg audio equality.

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

Yeah DMG Audio Equality (nearly wetting myself in excitement to check out DMG Audio's new EQ....haha), also Fabfilter Pro-Q.

As Steve already covered, too much steep cutting leaves the sound narrow and "digital" sounding. While shaping sounds and using this as an effect this is less damaging however. If one need to make a sharp cut a good idea is to use a bell filter and place it in the "middle" of the cut you just made and make a gentle boost with a fairly wide Q.
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by gavisthename »

Is the new ableton eq still considered inferior to these eqs? Apparently they've jacked up the quality of the filters.

Yeah making a gentle boost with a wide q makes sense to bring back some natural sound after a deep cut. Cheers Matt :-)

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

I'm pretty sure you're safe to use the Ableton native EQ on your channels
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by PERIAL »

I tried to get chance to live's 9 eq, it sounds great, but it basically can't beat Equick or Pro-Q in terms of ease of use.

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by blnn »

Lost to the Void wrote: Subtractive EQ is the absolute basis of good production. The foundation rock.
Well, that and sound choice.
I strongly believe in sound choice. I think it's easier finding the sound this way than using much EQ/filter...and more.
And of course proper combination of sounds and interesting musical ideas.
It's me, or really some people spend more time with EQ and dynamics in the early stage of the process than really doing it musical or choosing/designing the sounds? :?

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

Stop worrying about which EQ is better.
Really.
Worry about getting your Eq skills better.

Ableton EQ, fruity EQ......
Whatever, in the right hands they all work wonderfully

The "best" EQ will not make you EQ better.
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by gavisthename »

Lost to the Void wrote:Stop worrying about which EQ is better.
Really.
Worry about getting your Eq skills better.

Ableton EQ, fruity EQ......
Whatever, in the right hands they all work wonderfully

The "best" EQ will not make you EQ better.
Very true ... sometimes I forget the fundamentals of eq and go a bit overboard. Maybe I can get some kind of electric shock feedback fitted to my mouse for when I'm cutting too much!

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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Mattias »

gavisthename wrote:Maybe I can get some kind of electric shock feedback fitted to my mouse for when I'm cutting too much!
Haha! What a feature that would be, man you should patent that idea.
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

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PERIAL wrote:I tried to get chance to live's 9 eq, it sounds great, but it basically can't beat Equick or Pro-Q in terms of ease of use.
Live`s EQ 8is awesome and it is my main EQ atm as i find it equally easy to use as f.e. Pro-Q with less need of CPU. I`m happy as a bird with Live`s internal plug-ins and have cleaned my VST folder with redundant stuff finally. I´m back to the stuff i really need and which i nearly know inside and out.
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

I like lives EQ8 too as it tends to be quite gentle, I've not really used the 9 versions yet enough to make any decision though
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Re: Linear/Minimum Phase EQ

Post by Lost to the Void »

Ok, so I am working on some mastering at the moment, and something has come up that applies to some of this conversation.

I`m just doing some notes on an artists work, and one of the problems I notice with the mix is the sharp, uncomfortable nature of the mix.
I made the assumption that the producer has been making too many hard cuts in their EQ work.

Sure enough, on checking the analyser, the mix is full of deep cuts and peaks across the spectrum.
Well balanced, but with a grating quality.

So this relates to earlier stuff about gentle cuts being better than big, steep, deep and hard cuts and using sounds that fit the mix naturally, or sculpting more gently.
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