Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

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Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mslwte »

I'd like to maybe invest some money into a unit or 2 that adds that analogue warmth to my projects. But is it worth doing unless you spend £1000's or are there any units out there that are good value for money. Or cheap lol

I'd love to have a reel to reel recorder but know that is probably a lot to take on.
Does anyone here use this sort of thing or is it generally a mastering process and something that I should stay away from?

I've always liked the vintage warmer but people in the know say its not all that good, is there any hardware that is reasonably priced.
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mattias »

One thing is for sure;
It wont sound good unless you're ready to pay up, cheaper units actually makes crappy, dead, sterile and noisy sound.

By all means add warmth, coloration etc to your tracks pre-mastering. Channel wise preferably.
Your mostly hardware guy right? You mention Vintage Warmer so I'll give you some ideas on stuff that I personally think sounds much better when it comes to software:

Sknote Stripbus
VoS Tessla Pro MKII (PC only)
VoS Density MKIII (Coloration knob) (PC only)
Fabfilter Saturn
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Lost to the Void »

What is warmth?

I think it is subjective. When you actually present the reality of running something through some outboard gear to "add warmth" what actually happens is so subtle most people can`t really tell the difference, and if it is made obvious enough then damage has been done already.

Warmth is a word used to capture so many process.

You have the harmonic distortion of valves
The noise of going outboard
Tape Noise
Tape Curves
Tape compression
Vinyl Eq curves (RIAA Equalisation)
etc etc

IF your mix is done right then it should/could sound "warm" even if it is done entirely ITB

I use Reel to Reel in mastering, mainly for tape compression, which adds a vitality I have yet to find in the digital realm (although I have found, through a combination of stuff you can get so close it is really hard to tell), but tape machines are bastards to keep in good order, degaussing, cleaning, realignment etc etc etc And of course there are very few companies manufacturing tape, and the prices are going up all the time.

Vintage warmer is kinda poo. There is a lot of stuff out there that can add warmth, grit, analogue like compression and saturation etc now.

If anything, I mean beyond just working on getting your EQ to a super high standard so you can get warmth into your mixes effectively, I would advise the purchase of a summing mixer like an SPL Mixdream.

But with current console emulation from Sonimus, Waves and Slate Digital doing a bloody amazing job, I`m not sure that kind of expense is entirely necessary.

Get yourself to http://sonimus.com/products/satson/ and buy the Satson plugin pair. For the money they are asking you get amazing amazing plugs worth waaaay more than the asking price.

Start using these as your first channel insert, and control your gain stages, use the sweeet filters to adjust basic tone, and have the buss plugs on all busses. You won`t notice immediate results but in time your mixes will sound rounder, fuller and more "natural"
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mslwte »

Mattias wrote:One thing is for sure;
It wont sound good unless you're ready to pay up, cheaper units actually makes crappy, dead, sterile and noisy sound.

By all means add warmth, coloration etc to your tracks pre-mastering. Channel wise preferably.
Your mostly hardware guy right? You mention Vintage Warmer so I'll give you some ideas on stuff that I personally think sounds much better when it comes to software:

Sknote Stripbus
VoS Tessla Pro MKII (PC only)
VoS Density MKIII (Coloration knob) (PC only)
Fabfilter Saturn
Thanks mate, I knew you would say that expense would have to be made but I was kinda Hoping you wouldn't ha ha.

Saturn is already on my list it looks like the ultimate distortion vst. I thought it would possibly be good for kicks.. Will definately check the other plugins.

Having decent vsts is great I'm just a bit of a sucker for knobs and dials ha ha
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mslwte »

Lost to the Void wrote:What is warmth?

I think it is subjective. When you actually present the reality of running something through some outboard gear to "add warmth" what actually happens is so subtle most people can`t really tell the difference, and if it is made obvious enough then damage has been done already.

Warmth is a word used to capture so many process.

You have the harmonic distortion of valves
The noise of going outboard
Tape Noise
Tape Curves
Tape compression
Vinyl Eq curves (RIAA Equalisation)
etc etc

IF your mix is done right then it should/could sound "warm" even if it is done entirely ITB

I use Reel to Reel in mastering, mainly for tape compression, which adds a vitality I have yet to find in the digital realm (although I have found, through a combination of stuff you can get so close it is really hard to tell), but tape machines are bastards to keep in good order, degaussing, cleaning, realignment etc etc etc And of course there are very few companies manufacturing tape, and the prices are going up all the time.

Vintage warmer is kinda poo. There is a lot of stuff out there that can add warmth, grit, analogue like compression and saturation etc now.

If anything, I mean beyond just working on getting your EQ to a super high standard so you can get warmth into your mixes effectively, I would advise the purchase of a summing mixer like an SPL Mixdream.

But with current console emulation from Sonimus, Waves and Slate Digital doing a bloody amazing job, I`m not sure that kind of expense is entirely necessary.

Get yourself to http://sonimus.com/products/satson/ and buy the Satson plugin pair. For the money they are asking you get amazing amazing plugs worth waaaay more than the asking price.

Start using these as your first channel insert, and control your gain stages, use the sweeet filters to adjust basic tone, and have the buss plugs on all busses. You won`t notice immediate results but in time your mixes will sound rounder, fuller and more "natural"
That Sonimus deal looks good. The spl mixdream is way beyond my price range ha ha

So basically unless your gonna spend 1000s it's not worth going down the hardware route. What about something by TLA, are they worth a look?
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mattias »

Dont know much about TLA Audio to be honest.

If you're into API 500 modules there are tons of boutique units if you look really hard that might suit your need. They're awesome if you wanna keep on building.
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mslwte »

Man those api modules look cool
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

I'm interested in these Satson plugs. How are you supposed to use them? Do you put your tracks at 0db before adding the insert? What's the advantage over having a saturater on each channel for example?

I think computer music give a cut down version away, so I'll have a play with that to see what cpu usage etc is like.

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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Mslwte wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:What is warmth?

I think it is subjective. When you actually present the reality of running something through some outboard gear to "add warmth" what actually happens is so subtle most people can`t really tell the difference, and if it is made obvious enough then damage has been done already.

Warmth is a word used to capture so many process.

You have the harmonic distortion of valves
The noise of going outboard
Tape Noise
Tape Curves
Tape compression
Vinyl Eq curves (RIAA Equalisation)
etc etc

IF your mix is done right then it should/could sound "warm" even if it is done entirely ITB

I use Reel to Reel in mastering, mainly for tape compression, which adds a vitality I have yet to find in the digital realm (although I have found, through a combination of stuff you can get so close it is really hard to tell), but tape machines are bastards to keep in good order, degaussing, cleaning, realignment etc etc etc And of course there are very few companies manufacturing tape, and the prices are going up all the time.

Vintage warmer is kinda poo. There is a lot of stuff out there that can add warmth, grit, analogue like compression and saturation etc now.

If anything, I mean beyond just working on getting your EQ to a super high standard so you can get warmth into your mixes effectively, I would advise the purchase of a summing mixer like an SPL Mixdream.

But with current console emulation from Sonimus, Waves and Slate Digital doing a bloody amazing job, I`m not sure that kind of expense is entirely necessary.

Get yourself to http://sonimus.com/products/satson/ and buy the Satson plugin pair. For the money they are asking you get amazing amazing plugs worth waaaay more than the asking price.

Start using these as your first channel insert, and control your gain stages, use the sweeet filters to adjust basic tone, and have the buss plugs on all busses. You won`t notice immediate results but in time your mixes will sound rounder, fuller and more "natural"
That Sonimus deal looks good. The spl mixdream is way beyond my price range ha ha

So basically unless your gonna spend 1000s it's not worth going down the hardware route. What about something by TLA, are they worth a look?
TLA fat track is good. Similar price to the spl I think
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Planar wrote:I'm interested in these Satson plugs. How are you supposed to use them? Do you put your tracks at 0db before adding the insert? What's the advantage over having a saturater on each channel for example?

I think computer music give a cut down version away, so I'll have a play with that to see what cpu usage etc is like.
Satsons are used on each buss and return channel, and the channel plugs go as first plugin in your chain on each channel. You can then trim the gain stage with the control to get a proper gain level to go to the next plugin etc, and get a little analog sound. Then use your mixer fader to set the level in the mix. It puts you into the same habit you would have with a proper desk.

That's the simple explanation anyway.
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

Cheers. I've been playing around for the last hour and I think I get it now.

The CM version is only the channel strip part, so I was adding one as the first insert, then changing the gain to hit 0db on the VU meter and using my channel faders in my DAW as normal. The aim is that the channel strip limits the volume to whatever the VU meter hits in the plugin, right? So when at 0db my DAW fader will never go higher than that. And when you go above 0db in Satson, you get some slight saturation but not distortion- at the expense of having to turn down your channel fader a bit? I'm not sure how running Satson hot makes the levels right for subsequent plugins.

I seemed to be getting reasonable results like that anyway with a test drum loop, and those filters are lovely. Does the full version have a global bypass button? It would be a bit annoying having to bypass every instance.

I'm going to keep using it anyway and possibly get the full version as it's uber cheap.

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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by nervejammer »

This pre-amp review in sound on sound looks cool James
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar09/a ... epre73.htm

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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mattias »

Lost to the Void wrote:
Planar wrote:
Satsons are used on each buss and return channel, and the channel plugs go as first plugin in your chain on each channel. You can then trim the gain stage with the control to get a proper gain level to go to the next plugin etc, and get a little analog sound. Then use your mixer fader to set the level in the mix. It puts you into the same habit you would have with a proper desk.

That's the simple explanation anyway.
Gonna try those Satsons myself, I have the SonEQ and liked it.

Mslwte & Planar, also Stripbus and similar "console emulations" works just like he described above. You want to use several instances of the plugins, one of each channel to get the proper sound since one alone is very subtle and you dont really realize the massive effect it can have on the mix when you use one for each channel.
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

Thanks Mattias. How is Stripbus? Having read around it last night, it seems Satson and Stripbus seem to be rated fairly highly and they're both very inexpensive.

Stripbus is slightly more appealing as it seems to have more features and each instance interacts with its peers. People rate Satsons filters (I can hear why), but I have that covered with Satson CM for free. The only concern is CPU usage, Satson CM was about 4% usage with 6 instances and there is no demo to try out Stripbus.

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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mattias »

I dont know how Satson sounds (I just have experience with their EQ saturation) but I know Stripbus very well and I think that it's just a matter of taste between the two. My absolute favorite however is VoS Tessla Pro MKII, but its PC only and have several more functions and sounds.
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

Mattias wrote:My absolute favorite however is VoS Tessla Pro MKII, but its PC only and have several more functions and sounds.
Oh this is free! Trying it out now, I should be working... :lol:

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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mattias »

Yeah it's free and awesome, that dude have some amazing skills.
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

Mattias wrote:Yeah it's free and awesome, that dude have some amazing skills.
Both it and Satson definitely make the sound "smoother" and "rounder" from my experiments, I'm really impressed. The VOS plug seems to need high levels to get the VU needles up, however. I've ordered Strip bus for £20. Between that and the 2 free options, I think I'm covered with this now. Thanks for the advice.

I didn't even know I wanted/needed a console emu until this came up. :lol:

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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Barfunkel »

I have that Satson VST and I have to say the effect is VERY subtle. With electronic sources (where the sounds are often heavily compressed, distorted and stuff) the effect is very close to being inaudible.

You can overdrive the gain, but it doesn't sound that great imo, nothing like a quality console, or one of those so crappy it's actually good-type of consoles. Definitely not on par with a dedicated distortion unit, or even the drive knob of a Moogerfooger.

The hi-pass filter is the most useful feature of the VST. Sounds good and it's very useful in mixing.
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Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mattias »

Planar wrote:
Mattias wrote:Yeah it's free and awesome, that dude have some amazing skills.
Both it and Satson definitely make the sound "smoother" and "rounder" from my experiments, I'm really impressed. The VOS plug seems to need high levels to get the VU needles up, however. I've ordered Strip bus for £20. Between that and the 2 free options, I think I'm covered with this now. Thanks for the advice.

I didn't even know I wanted/needed a console emu until this came up. :lol:
Yeah now you know and you're happy for it!
Barfunkel wrote:I have that Satson VST and I have to say the effect is VERY subtle. With electronic sources (where the sounds are often heavily compressed, distorted and stuff) the effect is very close to being inaudible.

You can overdrive the gain, but it doesn't sound that great imo, nothing like a quality console, or one of those so crappy it's actually good-type of consoles. Definitely not on par with a dedicated distortion unit, or even the drive knob of a Moogerfooger.

The hi-pass filter is the most useful feature of the VST. Sounds good and it's very useful in mixing.
You reckon they're inaudible with electronic sources? What sources then, sounds odd to me. Just because its electronic doesn't need they have to be "heavily compressed, distorted and stuff".
Of course they're subtle, it's the whole idea behind console emulations. I wouldn't compare console emulation and distortion units though but I see what you're getting at. Sometimes console emulations are not right for the job, the big trick is to know (or randomly stumble upon!) when to use it. Some units sounds crap to some people and awesome to others, units like these are very program dependent.
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