It is currently Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:53 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]





Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:20 pm 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:54 pm
Posts: 5
hello everyone!

i use ableton live and i really think im doin some nice stuff(clips / ideas etc) in session view. But my biggest problem with my musicmaking is to make a whole finish song. I just sitting around playing with some ideas, clips and making drums / loops and synth riffs,fx etc and whats not. but it stays there. :roll: I can hear that it could be a realy nice song if i just come together in my head to arrange the clips and do all automation etc. to the arrangement view and finialy a finish song. Anyone out there understand my problem ? and got some tips or comments on this matter??

best regards!!/ Dopek Maslanka


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:38 pm 
Offline
subsekt
subsekt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 4429
Location: in her mouth
you have to dive in. throw stuff down. keep repeating. force it a bit ;)

you might not make something you are happy with first time but you will get better the more times you do it.

_________________
http://www.subsekt.com

Lost to the Void wrote:
Fuck off, get some tequila down ya neck and make some noise you cunt....




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:04 pm 
Offline
unsure
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 9:43 am
Posts: 391
Location: Amsterdam/Bristol
Session view is great for throwing down ideas. But it can lock you into a certain mentality which leads to a lot of unfinished tracks.....loops basically.

I tend to record from session view into arrangement and then I listen in arrangement view and find sections that i like. Turn them into scenes. Then re-records from session to arrangement

I try and avoid manually placing things in arrangement view as I find everything I do becomes predictable. Which means shit. Which means another unfinished project

key word: balance


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:12 pm 
Offline
has no plan

Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 12:48 pm
Posts: 406
What both the people above said is true and how I work in Ableton.

Yours is an extremely common problem for electronic music makers, especially those using computer software, and most of us would probably agree that getting a structure together is one of the less fun parts of production. Just gotta force yourself to get your head down and do it really! Maybe spend some time studying the structures of music that you like/that inspires you to get ideas of how they tend to be constructed.

Forcing yourself to finish tracks is great, if you're a serial loop maker it means you get pushed out of your comfort zone and inevitably come up with some ideas for the track that you wouldn't have thought of just staying in the 8 bars. Also you get more practice of arrangement and mixdowns which can't be a bad thing...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:29 pm 
Offline
Malory Towers
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:47 am
Posts: 1322
Location: Berlin
You need to flesh out a rough arrangement quickly, while your still in the vibe. So just get into the habit otherwise you'll be stuck in loop mode forever. You just have to force yourself, no other way.

_________________
tunes: http://soundcloud.com/michaellovatt
blog: http://www.1000cutz.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:43 pm 
Offline
site spammer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:43 pm
Posts: 351
Location: Worthing Facist HQ, West Sussex
msl wrote:
You need to flesh out a rough arrangement quickly, while your still in the vibe. So just get into the habit otherwise you'll be stuck in loop mode forever. You just have to force yourself, no other way.


I wish I had took this advice a long time ago, I suffer for the "stuck in clean loop mentality" the problem is that I run out of time and steam and patience quickly. Don't get me wrong, I love messing about with this stuff but the end result is folders full of 40 second track ideas that I never want to hear again, let alone develop.

I think you have to get something going quickly in arrangement view and start thinking about how the track is gonna evolve and try and vibe off that, come back later when to have something that can run through (with changes) for about 3 mins that doesn't piss you off.

You can always return to it later to dick around with EQ, tweak FX and such like.

I have two tracks I have used this method with lately and I was surprised when I fired them up yesterday, I do want to finish them.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:44 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8679
Hit record, jam out in session view, fine tune in arrangement.

Play and perform your tune, rather than lay it out on a timeline, you get a much better feel for it.
This is the essence of ableton for me.
In fact i just had someone in the studio today, a lifetime cubase user, he was in for an ableton beginners lesson, the idea of jamming out his tunes got him very excited.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:01 pm 
Offline
Confetti
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:10 pm
Posts: 2632
Location: The big smoke London
Lost to the Void wrote:
Hit record, jam out in session view, fine tune in arrangement.

Play and perform your tune, rather than lay it out on a timeline, you get a much better feel for it.
This is the essence of ableton for me.
In fact i just had someone in the studio today, a lifetime cubase user, he was in for an ableton beginners lesson, the idea of jamming out his tunes got him very excited.



Agreed, my controller was on the blink for about 2 months before I replaced it at Xmas. It was painful going back to using the mouse!
Much happier with my new controller and jamming. Although did get myself stuff in serious Loop zone for the Xmas holiday and the first couple of weeks of Jan.
I think it was because I was trying to learn to much, and work out how best to configure the controller, and new plug ins, etc...

I dunno if I'm out of it. But what I've done is set myself the challenge of making something which is over 4mins long over the course of the weekend (6 hours max in my case).
Then upload it on here and let the bastards rip it to shreds :D

Last weekend I was too pissed to get any productive results out, but I'm taking a very cutthroat approach if I can't get decent sound design done by Saturday morning, and then arranged by Sunday morning, it get's trashed!
This helps for me because I know I can get too precious about stuff, and at this moment in my music education only "finishing" things will improve me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:42 pm 
Offline
Weedy

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:05 pm
Posts: 3045
Location: Leeds
Jamming it live and editing it after is definitely the way forwards, a pad controller like an APC40 makes this more tactile and sometimes a mistake can sound really good. Experiment with the trigger quantisation of each clip and experiment with legato triggering and follow actions. Turn the screen off while you do this. Basically make it fun. Once you have something you like you can go in and perfect it in arrangement view. I tend to find when I do this I only jam out 3 or 4 minutes and tend to work around a breakdown section, once that's nailed I add an intro/outro for the DJ's.

It also helps me to break the track up into sections in my head and then make a scene for each section, I find this helps avoid only adding a single element every couple of bars in a predictable way. I don't go overboard, only 3 or 4 scenes with extra clips for variations below these. Often this leaves editing a subtractive process, which is easier than adding new stuff.

_________________


Archive of all my mixes HERE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:42 pm 
Online
subsekt
subsekt
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:22 pm
Posts: 7830
Location: Lego City
No need for a midi controller. Map scenes to 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 - ghetto style haha.

Do multiple passes, tapping the up/down arrow keys. Jobs a good un, innit?

_________________
Lost to the Void wrote:
There is no top to the mountain, but the view gets better as you climb.

-
http://blog.subsekt.com/
subsekt mixes: https://hearthis.at/4x6yvjqn/
https://www.facebook.com/subsekt909


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:58 pm 
Offline
Confetti
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:10 pm
Posts: 2632
Location: The big smoke London
ICN wrote:
No need for a midi controller. Map scenes to 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 - ghetto style haha.

Do multiple passes, tapping the up/down arrow keys. Jobs a good un, innit?



Fuck that!

:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:05 pm 
Offline
Pea Dough
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 2562
I never 'jam'.

I am a lot more methodical in my approach (probably cos I studied Chem at uni and am a chem teacher as my day job).

I won't detail my method because it's probably not interesting to anyone, besides I'm not excatly a techno powerhouse!.. anyway, it kinda works for me.

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/jordan-louis



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:10 pm 
Offline
-1072
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:45 pm
Posts: 1072
Location: Hamburg
Lost to the Void wrote:
Hit record, jam out in session view, fine tune in arrangement.


Wildpitch, baby!!!
Way to go. 10 times faster than trying to imitate your personal flow by moving around blocks. Techno is spontaneous, the session view captures exactly that. Arrangement tends to make people overthink their stuff.

_________________
SoundCloud | Mixcloud | Facebook |Twitter | AudioRealism


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:51 pm 
Offline
Normality Restored
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:20 am
Posts: 803
Location: Michigan
jordanneke wrote:
I never 'jam'.

I am a lot more methodical in my approach (probably cos I studied Chem at uni and am a chem teacher as my day job).

I won't detail my method because it's probably not interesting to anyone, besides I'm not excatly a techno powerhouse!.. anyway, it kinda works for me.


I'm the same way. Every once in a while I will try to tweak some knobs on my controller or something but I always come back to the mouse. I think I'm just lazy because for me it's more work to set up a system for jamming than it is to just drop the clips, notes, etc. in with a mouse.

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ttinga
https://www.facebook.com/TtingaMusic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:12 am 
Offline
Little chief
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 33
Location: lol I forgot
all I can say is to just throw yourself or if need Force yourself to sketch an outline. You don't need to make everything perfect, but just enough to make it more fun and enjoyable!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:08 am 
Offline
decent
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 322
Location: US
It's the fear of failure. Every producer goes through it, and gets better because of it. It's just another stepping stone to get across, but a big one at that. You just have to treat every track like it's not the last.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:29 am 
Offline
Lifer
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 4:40 am
Posts: 741
Location: Send cash or fuck off
Basically all of the stuff I am doing is jamming out with my gear and record to audio straight away. I'll create a linear arrangement on my sequencer and then fuck that up as it plays along doing whatever I see fit at the moment. Never the same twice. Always fun.

_________________
C0REZ wrote:
techno 2014 = fascism


:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:19 am 
Offline
subsekt
subsekt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 4429
Location: in her mouth
Something I do (because I use bits of hardware) is record audio. 1 or 2 takes, but I'll record about 10 mins of me messing about. Then I'll chop and change sections and maybe process the audio more.

Track finished.

The key is to be happy with the initial groove and loop. I spend most of my time on that.

_________________
http://www.subsekt.com

Lost to the Void wrote:
Fuck off, get some tequila down ya neck and make some noise you cunt....




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:20 pm 
Offline
Confetti
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:10 pm
Posts: 2632
Location: The big smoke London
Further to all of this, I heard an interview with the Ableton lot who said they wanted to change the position in which people made music with Push. E.g. not looking at the screen and standing up.

I tried this last night. About an hour of jamming standing up. It actually felt really different from sitting down. Less like my job but using different software.
Sat down once I had a tea break but had the basis of the groove down.

It's quite good my controller is so big. I need to position it just off from the main working area which means I can't play the full range of keys sitting down.

Defo found what I started last night was more organic than if I'd sat clicking the mouse. I've generally been to lazy/conscious of crap keyboard playing meaning I've generally stuck to using my mouse and drawing things in.
Slowly getting myself out of that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: go into arrangement!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:33 pm 
Online
subsekt
subsekt
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:22 pm
Posts: 7830
Location: Lego City
Yeah, standing up is the new sitting down.

I'm taking the piss, but I completely agree btw. Moving around a bit / being active makes a big difference & is a lot more fun 4 free tekno innit m8s :mrgreen:

_________________
Lost to the Void wrote:
There is no top to the mountain, but the view gets better as you climb.

-
http://blog.subsekt.com/
subsekt mixes: https://hearthis.at/4x6yvjqn/
https://www.facebook.com/subsekt909


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
skymiles v1.1 designed by CodeMiles Team -TemplatesDragon-.