Re: Cross-rhythmsPolyrhythms and Polymeters. Lets talk about
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:24 pm
Mike parker, Abdullah Rashim, and schxxxhch or whatever on avian craft some excellent off kilter time and poly rhythmic techno
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Glad you've mentioned him as this popped up on CDM yesterday:-Lost to the Void wrote:All tracing back to Steve Reich really.
The true originator of techno
it will sound weird if you mix triplets and quintuplets. Even if you put 2 different triplet patterns together it sounds a bit shit. Oh I see you put in 11plets as well:). Whats the next prime number?Barfunkel wrote:I got no idea about the science behind polyrhythms and whatnot, but I just made a track (just for the heck of it) where the kick pattern is 62 steps long, the hihat pattern is 5 steps long, the bassline pattern is 12 steps long and the lead pattern is 11 steps long. Sounds a bit weird, but I don't see it as impossible to play in a DJ set because of the rhythms.
Lost to the Void wrote:Count the beats.ashley BORG wrote:OK Steve, well to my ears it does. Maybe you can show us an example.
1st tune, right at the beginning I just noticed the loop start is staggered a few times, so I guess that part is, but after that short little section, the main riff goes 4x4. Restarts 1st beat of every 4.
Regis tune is the same, main riff repeats 1st beat every bar
3rd tune, is fucking great, but there are no polymeters, everything repeats at the start of each bar, although some parts repeat every 2 bard.
Here`s a great example. Hardfloor are ALL about polyrthmic parts in layers.
Check out the rather legendary track Acperience.
The first 303 line is a 2 beat/half bar loop
Then the second 303 line is a 3 note loop (You start hearing it around 1:39)
(The later 3rd 303 repeats every 4 beats/1 time a bar)
the interaction between the two causes the track to have a forward energy. Classic trick.
youtu.be/-SGH_ZwGcZ0
definitely. great when it works though, i love when the 808 hats come in on this track at 3:20 in triplets - it's a smoother sound though so doesn't clash with anythingLost to the Void wrote:Polythms are fine, it`s when you go into stuff like triplets and quintols etc, that you can get problems as they will clatter against anything on a standard note meter.
You mean the offbeat open hats that come in at 3:20?ozias_leduc wrote:definitely. great when it works though, i love when the 808 hats come in on this track at 3:20 in triplets - it's a smoother sound though so doesn't clash with anythingLost to the Void wrote:Polythms are fine, it`s when you go into stuff like triplets and quintols etc, that you can get problems as they will clatter against anything on a standard note meter.
youtu.be/RNG5vAZ_sDI
Went to the Reich evening at the South Bank a couple of weeks ago, not knowing much of his work except for "Music for 18 Musicians" (which I love, beautiful piece of music) and "Come Out" and I came out thinking the exact same, blew my mind a bit to be honest... particularly as earlier that day I'd been down to Jaded to watch Rrose so I got to experience techno in a very modern form, and then experience music which you could legitimately claim to be the origin of it all.Lost to the Void wrote:All tracing back to Steve Reich really.
The true originator of techno
youtu.be/Mv_8UaP_QRI
Truly masterful, sends you into a trance.
Reich is my absolute hero.
You can learn a shitload from this video alone
shit I really wanted to go to that but I couldn`t get tickets. Found out too latetdmusic wrote:Went to the Reich evening at the South Bank a couple of weeks ago, not knowing much of his work except for "Music for 18 Musicians" (which I love, beautiful piece of music) and "Come Out" and I came out thinking the exact same, blew my mind a bit to be honest... particularly as earlier that day I'd been down to Jaded to watch Rrose so I got to experience techno in a very modern form, and then experience music which you could legitimately claim to be the origin of it all.Lost to the Void wrote:All tracing back to Steve Reich really.
The true originator of techno
youtu.be/Mv_8UaP_QRI
Truly masterful, sends you into a trance.
Reich is my absolute hero.
You can learn a shitload from this video alone
They performed:
youtu.be/BhhIZscEE_g
(actually performed by Reich himself and Colin Currie, interesting exploration of how two rhythms interact with each other and quite an impressive display of timing by them both!)
youtu.be/g0WVh1D0N50
(they just played a recording of it, I found this piece pretty inspiring when I first heard it a while ago - it's an exploration of how a simple voice loop changes when layered and phased (done on tape back in the day, something that was explored a lot back then, e.g. Eno on Music for Airports), it goes from a simple loop into weird doubled rhythms and then finally into a blurry, unrecognisable smudge of sound as more loops are added over the top)
"Music for Pieces of Wood", which Steve posted above and was the one that I felt had the closest ties to techno - polyrhythmic, hypnotic... quite a strange experience watching five people playing claves that in such a grand concert hall, but you really felt that the crowd were "immersed" in it, certainly judging by the applause
"Pendulum music for 3 or 4 microphones, amplifiers & loudspeakers", can't find a decent vid of this but basically it was four speakers with four microphones hanging on a swing overhead, one mic over each speaker... someone sets all the microphones swinging like pendulums and as they pass over their speaker, it makes a feedback noise. As the microphones gradually drift out of time and swing smaller and smaller distances, interesting patterns emerge. This was probably the least sonically interesting of all the pieces, but I definitely admired the concept behind it.
and then finally, a one hour performance of:
youtu.be/ZXJWO2FQ16c
Which as well as being a beautiful and very hypnotic piece of music, was incredible to watch the stamina and accuracy of these performers repeating the same phrases over and over, and of course has an interesting process/concept aspect to it when you read up. Standing ovation for a good few minutes at the end of that... I listened to it all the way through again when I got home, nothing else quite sounded right after it had worked its way into my brain haha.
So yeah, was a pretty amazing experience and I found his process and repetition driven approach to music really inspiring in the context of techno, especially as that's part of what I find so fascinating about stuff like Alva Noto/Raster Noton, so seeing how Reich had been into that sort of thing many years before them was pretty impressive!
I'd like to get into more of his work - any particular recommendations?
yeah but they're on a triplet grid K-hK-hK-hLost to the Void wrote:You mean the offbeat open hats that come in at 3:20?ozias_leduc wrote:definitely. great when it works though, i love when the 808 hats come in on this track at 3:20 in triplets - it's a smoother sound though so doesn't clash with anythingLost to the Void wrote:Polythms are fine, it`s when you go into stuff like triplets and quintols etc, that you can get problems as they will clatter against anything on a standard note meter.
youtu.be/RNG5vAZ_sDI
Not triplets, just on the offbeat, pretty standard.
I don`t think it is on a triplet grid. It`s just a standard offbeat hat with a slow attack. Unless you are looking at the closed hats, and they are definitely on the 4`sozias_leduc wrote:
yeah but they're on a triplet grid K-hK-hK-h
(i always call anything on the 1/8T grid a triplet, not sure if that's correct - but regardless, if the hat had a sharp attack, it would clash with the other 1/16 stuff )
isnt this where mixing in key comes in? James Holden for example mixes up the weirdest stuff together that way.Lost to the Void wrote:Well, its not too dj friendly, i did a lot of stuff with odd note lengths years ago, and its great in a tune, but as soon as you start mixing tunes dj style, it ends up really messy.
Not on drums, but on polyrhythm synth-lines.Lost to the Void wrote:How does mixing in key help with odd time signatures?
mick wrote:Not on drums, but on polyrhythm synth-lines.Lost to the Void wrote:How does mixing in key help with odd time signatures?