Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

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RWise
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by RWise »

StacieAnne wrote:
RWise wrote:
Mslwte wrote:see these tunes are pushing the boundaries of grooves. what happened to this approach? seems like everyone gave up.
I think its partly down to the trend waves in techno over the years and the way technology has improved. the 90s era seemed to be more focused on groove but i think as time progressed and tracks started to get more sonically impressive - Producers started focusing more on singular elements on a track, like working on a kick drum for hours until it sounds huge and boomy. Where as before, it was more about getting a solid groove and sequence.

But this is only a generalisation for a certain amount of people. Theres still plenty of great tracks released today that are pushing the limits of groove.
Yeah, I was about to chip in with it being an age thing but unable to offer any real explanation for it. I feel like a lot of the tracks around at the moment have some great swing but are lacking in groove in the way these babies are.

Has quantise killed it?? I mean, I've never really thought about groove that much until Ableton and I still don't really do a great deal with it now. I didn't really know how to work the Groove Templates in Logic, they seem a bit easier in Abes.
For me, i love the un-quantized looseness of hardware machines. When i properly starting using hardware sequencers, drum machines and all that, my tracks started really opening up in groove.

Now before i get bombarded by a select few, i am not saying one is better than the other! Thats subjective.

However, theres something about everything not being perfectly on grid that adds that human feel to a record. And thats what CAN make things sound more authentic. That why some of these older groove records sound so alive.
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

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Yeah I suppose it could be. I woke up very early this morning so a grabbed my new shiny octatrack and took it downstairs and tried to get some wonky grooves going with a basic pattern. Mission failed.
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

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I kept the kicks without any swing and moved all other elements with varying amounts but no joy. I know it's a mixture of mix, compression and placement but no joy at all on the OT.
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td3l
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by td3l »

Always been partial to Steve Bicknell:
youtu.be/p0tENV17C-U

Voiski can bring the melody in a groovy way:
youtu.be/hk5B_M56hK0

Love this Stanislav track too. Must be triggering the synth from the 909... tight as.
youtu.be/LO1D9vRzG0I

Gunnar Haslam gets there too:
youtu.be/egT2f_D-B6k


.... really, the common thread in so many of these tracks is the 909. The timing of that machine is simply unearthly.
Last edited by td3l on Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by td3l »

I tried to get in that mode a bit myself a couple weeks ago, but probably failed:
https://soundcloud.com/tdel/2018-january-7/s-i8NEN

It definitely helps to have lots of micro motions in your elements... even simple things like having an 8 bar loop for your 1 bar pattern, and shifting the notes a hair here and there... or putting an Autofilter on over the output with a slow LFO, very subtlety filtering... etc.

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

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RWise
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by RWise »

Yeah Bicknell has some classic groovers

youtu.be/k10oIQsH5jc
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Evert »

Another blast from the past.

youtu.be/Kxy5e7PI1gk

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Evert »

Phase should also be mentioned in this thread.

youtu.be/kk-Cmj20VKw

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by TomasHD »

Everytime I think of groove...

youtu.be/i4jBSr5azvs

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Stace »

Mslwte wrote:Yeah I suppose it could be. I woke up very early this morning so a grabbed my new shiny octatrack and took it downstairs and tried to get some wonky grooves going with a basic pattern. Mission failed.
I like that you tried though :)

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Mslwte wrote:see these tunes are pushing the boundaries of grooves. what happened to this approach? seems like everyone gave up.
I wouldn`t say much of it is pushing the boundaries, stuff like tube jerk was swung out to all hell, but it`s nothing like some of the mad thrown out grooves you got in post dubstep and crunk (look at Burial for a good example).

Stuff definitely got more straight when minimal was over, and the "new school" "industrial" kids hammered in with their rigid beats. I blame Porc and the like, I don`t think they know that there are things like swing, shuffle, and groove templates
I think partly the German influence. German techno and dance music has, in general (exceptions allowed before someone says "but..."), been quite rigid, from EBM to the big 90`s stuff, the beats were more straight and rigid, more "Sturm und Drang". I think we have seen that come back.
Compare that to the Birmingham sound, which was still hard, but the swing was way up, the syncopation was stronger.

I prefer some swing and groove in my beats personally, it`s better for dancing. Rigid stuff is for dancing on your toes, "man" dancing, fist pumping etc.
Some groove makes you move your hips.

I honestly think it`s down to a lack of musicality and knowledge, and experimentation.

You don`t need specific machines to do it either, all the groove templates from all the machines have been converted to midi templates now, there is no excuse.
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Mslwte wrote:I kept the kicks without any swing and moved all other elements with varying amounts but no joy. I know it's a mixture of mix, compression and placement but no joy at all on the OT.

It`s also about musicality.

I did a long thing about it on the forum ages ago.

You can throw machines at it all day, or groove templates, but unless your drums are in tune, it ain`t gonna work.
Call and response is the key.
Female is a great example, his drums play a little tune, hear it on a big rig, and that`s all the tune needs.
Once your kick is in, and you add it`s counter element, let`s say, a snare, then not only should that snare work in syncopation, but in tone as well. Whether you do it subconsciously or methodically tune shit up, it needs to be done.
In the tuning drums thread, someone said "it`s not necessary". Which just made me scratch my head. Clearly that person didn`t know how to make a good groove.

A good drummer tunes his own drum kit, and it`s no different with techno, which is essentially drum music.


(I`m not lecturing you specifically here James, just making a point about musicality in drums)

Here are 2 great examples.

Drumming by steve reich (I saw this performed live recently, the drums were meticulously tunes before the performance, if they weren`t then it wouldn`t work).

Listen to how the drums evolve. If none of these drums were tuned, it would be a mess.

Same with music for pieces of wood (I also saw live). The woodblocks are all tuned.
Again, see how the grooves evolve, simple repetitious phrases interracting with each other.
Very very techno (in my opinion Reich invented techno looooooong before the detroit boys)

Groove is something you can be quite objective about. I been playing drums since I was 11 years old, so it`s all in my blood, dragging or pushing a beat, call and response, swing and shuffle, sliding in to the downbeat, sliding off the downbeat, making a precursor to the downbeat etc etc
The idea that it`s some secret "fuck up" of hardware inaccuracy is just not it.
You don`t need special machines or some magic (quite the contrary, I think if you are relying on your machines to "humanise" your music, then you have lost and the machines have won, you might as well let them make the music for you), you can do it on anything, a DAW, a drum machine, a piece of wood, a drum kit whatever. Musicality is everything.

youtu.be/doJk4yPwJDk
youtu.be/Mv_8UaP_QRI
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Lost to the Void »

I`m generally not one to use my own music as an example, having a very love/HATE relationship with music I make.
But.

One of the time where I feel I really got the feel of how I play drums in to my electronic music is a release I did on sin ages ago. All the tracks were made in the same way.

Here is one

youtu.be/sFrPR54MLms

The beat making was laborious, but rather than working in ableton session view I did all the beat making in arrangement view.

I had all the samples in as audio tracks (or recorded the hits I wanted as samples and then loaded them in to audio tracks), and then slid everything around in the arrangement, grid off (alt A) until it worked.
You can`t do THAT with machines. But it gives a really loose natural feel.

I`ve been doing it again recently on Heretic stuff (but mainly on 2 other names I produce under that are more groove centric).

It`s a really fun way to work and definitely worth a try.
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Evert »

Lost to the Void wrote: I had all the samples in as audio tracks (or recorded the hits I wanted as samples and then loaded them in to audio tracks), and then slid everything around in the arrangement, grid off (alt A) until it worked.
You can`t do THAT with machines. But it gives a really loose natural feel.
Sounds like a fun approach indeed. I take it you used Ableton's metronome to lay down the initial structure of the rhythm then?

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by skim »

A grooves thread without Oliver Ho is just a thread, amirite?

youtu.be/_zzJmRtTMCk

youtu.be/8WVVhqToj4U

youtu.be/1xLj_UGYPvY

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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Evert wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: I had all the samples in as audio tracks (or recorded the hits I wanted as samples and then loaded them in to audio tracks), and then slid everything around in the arrangement, grid off (alt A) until it worked.
You can`t do THAT with machines. But it gives a really loose natural feel.
Sounds like a fun approach indeed. I take it you used Ableton's metronome to lay down the initial structure of the rhythm then?
No I just left some stuff snapped, and then as I added elements I just moved them around using the snapped tracks as a reference.
It`s a really nice way to work with beats, you can always control j and consolidate your wonky loops to audio once you are done.
I really recommend anyone do it to construct beats. Lay down your 4 to the floors kicks if that`s your bag but then just go off grid, you can use the grid as a visual guide. Group it, compress to control it all, yummy beats aplenty.
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Groove and a half on this

youtu.be/MxsS0_wIMTw
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by RWise »

One that'll get your hips moving.

youtu.be/9zxoV_I6SOY
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Re: Your favourite grooves (Track thread)

Post by RWise »

Fuck, how i love slaters creations...

minimal, hypnotic and has a irresistible groove.

youtu.be/vHkn8IvOPEo
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