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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:16 am 
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Slowy J
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Yall want to hear a true story?

One day i was approached by a girl whose artist name is "Ciel" but her real name is Cindy and basically she attacked because my artist name who for those who don't know its "Cindy" was already used, that my track titles were sexist and a lot of people in the scene were disgusted and all those things and you know what she did even before i could reply? she blocked me hahaha so she calls me the most stupid shit ever and then blocks me.

Until today she was the only person who has ever written or talked to me about my track titles and the most funny thing about all this is she has only released 1 EP and she will be touring the world this year but not because of her music only because she is tackling all the prejudice present on our scene, she is with Discwoman and all the technofeminism girls. It seems like now its not about talent but about what you fight for in the "scene".

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:53 am 
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Well yeah but being on internet boards and being actually part of the show is a bit different mate.
How many distributers have you dealt with? How many artists do you deal with on a weekly basis? How many gigs have you done etc?
I mean being "in" the scene you see a lot more.

I can't speak for detroit and La or New York, but London has had plenty of girls in the scene forever.. more on the DJ side of things (especially in house music) than production, but techno in London has always been a relatively small scene anyway... Apart from now, being as commercial as it is.
Pretty much every country I've played in I've run into girls either DJing or producing techno, and continue to do so.

I mean, techno is more fash, and girls in techno is a hot topic, so we are seeing more women get a spotlight. And that may well lead to more women feeling like they can get involved, which might be something positive to come out of it.
I only deal with the underground, so maybe commercial events and the promoters are more sexist??!? But all the people I have dealt with over the last 20 years, promoters, labels etc have been super open and inclusive. I've played alongside girls many many many times. And in general the crowd has always been very mixed too.

But I'm not seeing any more or less women on the underground. It's always been pretty good, very inclusive, it kinda goes with the type of mindset of music and passion as the centre over commercial ideals, it's generally a left leaning, hearts on your sleeves kinda scene.
I mean sure Amelie lens and Peggy gou, but damn their music is pretty bland generic and commercial. Amelie lense doing the whole reverby Berlin style fash, and Gou doing more melodic crossover, the fact you point them out sorta makes my point for me....
There are some great girls out there doing far better work. They might not be as...... Media\magazine friendly... in their image, so you don't know about them.

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:08 am 
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I was talking about techno, not house. House has always had a different (though somewhat overlapping) demographic. Always been a ton more women involved in producing/DJing house than techno. But yeah, of course there have always been women producers and DJs in techno as well. *Some.*

...but as a percentage? Not a very big one.

If that changes, is it bad? For me it's good. Though the overall percentage of female producers making techno will likely remain small.

(To answer your question, I worked in a techno/house shop in the mid/late 90s then worked for a couple distributors late 90s/early 00s. Also used to gig regularly as a DJ. I was off the grid 2008-2010 and 2012-2014 or so, but otherwise I've been part of the scene for more than 20 years now. Granted, I haven't been *heavily* involved in the scene for a while--not consistently like you have. But I *have* been involved.)


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:32 am 
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Who is saying a change in percentage is bad?

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:04 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Who is saying a change in percentage is bad?


Well that was my original point through this whole thing...it's good! So it's good to support female producers and DJs who are doing quality work, which is what I read as the OP's aim.


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:13 am 
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It should be every *good* promoters aim to support producers doing quality work, regardless of what their sex, race, or sexual preferences are.

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:29 am 
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Sure, but reality doesn't always conform to ideals. For example, when there are more barriers for one group than another, then being "category-blind" is a way of just replicating the status quo.

Now I'm not saying that's how it is in techno, or that this is the main reason there's such a small proportion of female producers and DJs. I suspect it's part of it but only part. Regardless, I'd want to hear some female perspectives before judging one way or another.

I'm making a simple point, which is, I like the idea of more people bringing various perspectives into music. Not just gender or race, but also the kinds of music they grew up on, the way they grew up, different backgrounds with instruments. Anything really. Mix it up and mix it up again.


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:42 am 
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Ok. So.
Sex, race, religion and sexual preference on all future demos please kids.
But we promise it's all about the music.

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:25 am 
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The_G wrote:

Experiencing life differently = a different perspective. And yes, women generally experience life differently than men.


Yes. There are profound personality differences, something the feminists often deny, which is quite bizarre really. But of course there are just as profound overlap, something which is easily experienced in the (hard) techno scene where the women often are (act?) more masculine than many men, or me anyways. So what you get is in fact MORE masculinity as those women who make it big in techno are more masculine than men and what does this bring of diversity?

If people would go to the length of just thinking about what they mean by diversity, representation, masculinity/feminity etc this whole discussion would become clearer. This discussion applies of course to other creative fields as well.

I do in fact welcome more "feminity" within techno as it could perhaps "diversify" the dominant (masculine?) sounds, composition styles and general approach in aesthetics. But I can't really find some good examples.

Discrimination is another thing, and I am still of the impression that this is quite limited, especially in the off-mainstream/underground scenes. At least in Western Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:29 pm 
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mainst09 wrote:
Yall want to hear a true story?

One day i was approached by a girl whose artist name is "Ciel" but her real name is Cindy and basically she attacked because my artist name who for those who don't know its "Cindy" was already used, that my track titles were sexist and a lot of people in the scene were disgusted and all those things and you know what she did even before i could reply? she blocked me hahaha so she calls me the most stupid shit ever and then blocks me..


Can't see any stupid shit. Your track titles ARE sexist. So what's the point? That she blocked you before you could answer?
I'm interested in what you would have replied to her accusations.

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:04 pm 
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hunger marcher
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Ok. So.
Sex, race, religion and sexual preference on all future demos please kids.
But we promise it's all about the music.


No demo yet(I have a traktor mix tho), but i'm a black arabic trans-woman (i'm also gender fluid so may as well call me sir when I feel like it) and I love hard techno like richy howtin, are you interested ?
I'll give you a link to my mixcloud, ok ?

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:07 pm 
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RWise wrote:
This mainly comes from the crowd that strongly follow R.A, mixmag etc - which are all heavy on the social-justice side of things.


Don't know about MixMag, but you are right on the money about RA.


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:17 pm 
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I got a review of one of my releases in RA recently.
My missus, who knows me so well, said "So how much do you hate yourself now? hipster sellout"

"Well, I did a little sick in my mouth when the label sent the news" was my reply.

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Slowy J
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Mono-xID wrote:
mainst09 wrote:
Yall want to hear a true story?

One day i was approached by a girl whose artist name is "Ciel" but her real name is Cindy and basically she attacked because my artist name who for those who don't know its "Cindy" was already used, that my track titles were sexist and a lot of people in the scene were disgusted and all those things and you know what she did even before i could reply? she blocked me hahaha so she calls me the most stupid shit ever and then blocks me..


Can't see any stupid shit. Your track titles ARE sexist. So what's the point? That she blocked you before you could answer?
I'm interested in what you would have replied to her accusations.



lmao why are they sexist?

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:08 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Ok. So.
Sex, race, religion and sexual preference on all future demos please kids.
But we promise it's all about the music.


Not at all what I'm saying but okay. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Wise man once say: We could save the world if we only stopped trying.
Just throw a good fucking party and if someone there says: "hey where are all the minorities? This party is politicaly incorrect"! Just tell 'em to fuck off and go rally round the white house! Stop ruining the vibe for everybody with your bullshit white knight act! And on that note:


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Now I'm worried about you.

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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:56 am 
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The_G wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
Ok. So.
Sex, race, religion and sexual preference on all future demos please kids.
But we promise it's all about the music.


Not at all what I'm saying but okay. :)


Well, I mean... you did say this:

Quote:
For example, when there are more barriers for one group than another, then being "category-blind" is a way of just replicating the status quo.


So being "category blind" is bad because it perpetuates the status quo, but you should also at the same time not judge music by the person who made it.

Please do explain to me how those two sentiments don't completely contradict each other?


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:13 am 
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As a follow-up that... Isn't basically all bigotry/racism/separatism/tribalism pretty much a direct result of people not willing to be "category blind" in the first place?

So the solution to the problem of people not being "category blind"... is to *not* be "category blind"?

Brilliant stuff, mate.


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 Post subject: Re: Technoacts that are not white males
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:17 am 
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Bit
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meeb wrote:
Well, I mean... you did say this:

Quote:
For example, when there are more barriers for one group than another, then being "category-blind" is a way of just replicating the status quo.


So being "category blind" is bad because it perpetuates the status quo, but you should also at the same time not judge music by the person who made it.

Please do explain to me how those two sentiments don't completely contradict each other?


It's a general comment about "category-blindness" as a moral ethical position, not a specific comment about music. If people in social category X face barriers that people in social category Y do not, then being "category-blind" can work to perpetuate the advantages held by category X over category Y.

The question, for me, is how to reconcile a belief in category blindness as an ideal with the reality of inequality. I don't like positive discrimination because it attacks the symptoms and not the root causes. In general, when there is inequality, I like policies that tackle the root causes of inequality, for example unequal access by race/ethnicity to quality schooling, chid care or health services.

Now keep in mind, we are still in general philosophy/politics territory here--not talking about techno, or even music. But let's talk about techno now. Say you have two DJs. One is make (X) and one is female (Y). If X > Y, and both are available for the same price, playing the same kind of music, then I'd say you book X--after all, X is better. And if X < Y, it's an easy decision for Y. But what if X = Y? In this case, I might book Y--especially if the night already tilts very male--because there are fewer women DJs out there, it's plausible that they face higher barriers than men in this scene, and I generally think the scene is healthier and more interesting when it brings together more diverse perspectives. Granted, there are reasons why I might still book X over Y--for example, if Y is a jerk and difficult to work with. But all things being equal, I'd strongly consider booking Y over X, for the simple reasons I laid out above: the more diverse the scene is, the less same-y and more interesting I find it to be.

Simple as.


Last edited by The_G on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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