Technoacts that are not white males

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Hades »

I recently read a quote somewhere that said the only thing dead that smells sweet is the past,
but hey, in this case,
I'm kind of nostalgic to the days (though I know those never really existed) where it was just about the music, and not about who the fuck made it.

Now, even if OP says "ah, but I don't want to be making a crap line-up just because it's perfect in the gender equality thing, of course their music has to be good as well"
The flaw in that way of thinking, to me, is still that he looks first at that gender thing,
and then starts listening to the music.

ow all these discussions...
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

dubdub wrote:
Obviously that's another strain but without detroit, would that have ever led to what we now know as techno?
I always find these kind of questions pointless, as you can just keep on adding.
Without Liaisons Dangereuses (many detroit and chicago peeps cite them as a direct influence) would techno have happened?
Without 909`s would techno have ever happened?
etc etc

I would say the answer to all those questions is, it`s entirely possible, but we will never know.

I really isn't relevant to anything. It`s one of the things that annoys me about the detroit guys when they start moaning about not getting booked enough or whatever, they always blame cultural appropriation or some other shit basically related to "waaaaah but we invented it"
Maybe they should just make better music or more up to date music, maybe that would be a solution.......
Not everyone likes or cares about Detroit techno.

Not that I don`t respect them for what they did. But they certainly aren`t one of my influences, and many feel the same way.

Does it matter?
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Hades »

[wesellboxes] wrote:
I think it's all where we are in 2018 with identity politics, I despise them too and would make rather people focused on poverty, schools, health provision and the like. Without getting too tin foil hat I don't doubt there is a drive to keep us all bickering about this kind of stuff to effectively keep us away from the real issues I've just mentioned, divide and rule and all that. And not only does it work at first tier, it has people second guessing each other allies i.e this thread.

Amen to the above...

I honestly do get tired of us all discussing what seems, to me at least, a LOT more trivial than things like our planet going to total shit, pharmaceutical companies milking us all out, our food being pretty much poisoned, our educational systems and basic human rights getting butchered time and time again...
Honestly, my grandfather fought for a basic paycheck to be able to buy food and housing for his 8 kids, he fought for the right to be sick, for being protected by some simple laws so the bosses couldn't fire you when they felt like it,...
I some times wonder what he would feel like if he saw all this today.
He'd probably think :
We are all fucking up our planet, and they are slowly taking away our human rights, (obviously, for those of us lucky enough to be on parts of the planet where these at least existed),
and all we do is discuss this kind of stuff into eternity ? Get your priorities sorted out.
They're just having us run in circles fighting each other till eternity.

I wonder if there are meetings by the puppet masters where they go :
"man, there just not enough women/latino's/koala's in this meeting room to reach full equality numbers, we should seriously do something about that !"

As Jim Jefferies once said : life philosophy could be simplified to "try not to be a cunt"
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Hades »

P0607r0n wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ydU5g8UUmSc

I'll just leave it here and will go grab the popcorn m'kay?
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Prophän »

It's funny to see how my question was simply ignored

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

Prophän wrote:It's funny to see how my question was simply ignored
youtu.be/ZHJmY6h-LV0
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Root »

Hades wrote: I honestly do get tired of us all discussing what seems, to me at least, a LOT more trivial than things like our planet going to total shit...

...We are all fucking up our planet, and they are slowly taking away our human rights, (obviously, for those of us lucky enough to be on parts of the planet where these at least existed),
and all we do is discuss this kind of stuff into eternity ? Get your priorities sorted out.

So, do you know me or anything about my priorities by one thread here? I just asked for a list, not for this endless discussion. There are so many assumptions about my intentions in here, without knowing anything about the festival, the background or me. I just wrote that we want to act as a counterbalance to discrimination and that we want to leave to leave sexism, homphobia, nazis, capitalism, machoism,... outside. I did not write how we want to do this, how we discuss this topic, how the complete booking process and the selection will be done, how we're gonna promote the festival, what the info's will be, who else will be there and what's happening beneath the technofloor for four days, ...... I did not write it, because it wasn't my intention. Everyone's just assuming.

And now.. so many in here consider it important to refuse this idea instead of helping me out. Wow. One should ask himself: why is it so important to me, to refuse the idea of a balanced booking or of a counterbalance to discrimination? "OMG, there is not gonna be a whole white male booking, danger! We're gonna get discriminated!"

I'll leave it with this:

youtu.be/dw_mRaIHb-M

;)



/ thx dubdub and the others who provided some names. gonna check these out, maybe throw some of them into the booking pool when fine to me and will go on.. cheers
:geek:

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by RWise »

Root wrote: I'll leave it with this:

youtu.be/dw_mRaIHb-M
What a stupid video... Racism is racism.

Definition of racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

People cant just twist the definition of a word to fit their own notions and the concept of 'A certain race of people cant be racist' is implying that every person from that race is some sort of oppressor - which is inherently racist.

Fuck the double standard and lets just all treat others how we'd want to be treated.
Dont take life so seriously :mrgreen:

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

This whole thing is about duality.
As the right slides more right, the left slides more left, and they both essentially end up with the same behaviours.
That is why I say, when you make it an issue, it becomes an issue.

I've always tried to approach with a more anarchocentrist mindset.
I call it don'tgiveafuckness.
And I've basically lived my life that way since my late teens.
I don't give a fuck what you are,
are you harming me? Yes? Then get to Fuck.
No? Well all right then.

We ran our raves based on that policy and our club events the same way.
It was never an issue, and it shouldn't be.
If I look back on the acts we had playing for us, we pretty much represented everyone, all colours, all sexes, gay, lesbian, trans.
It was never on our agenda to do so, we never stuck it on flyers, we just welcomed anyone who did good shit, and was nice.

When we were doing a club night in Brighton, I booked someone who I released on a previous label I ran. She did awesome music... Played live, and was so good we made her a regular part of the crew. As we got to know her we found out she was a hardcore lesbian\gay rights activist, and very much in to feminism (this is around 2004 ish). We never managed to pull in the gay crowd to our events, as in Brighton, at least back then, although the gay scene is massive there, the events were pretty segregated. There were specifically gay events and then there were.... Non-gay events, even though they weren't specifically non gay. The scenes just didn't mix.
I really wanted to get the gay crowd in because the vibe at the gay events were awesome. I used to go to a lot of gay hardhouse events (Tinrib parties had a big gay crowd) in the 90s, purely because the vibe was good (as are the drugs).
Anyway.... At the Brighton events we flyered the hell out of the gay parties because we wanted some of the hedonistic energy that was present at those events (not because we wanted to be PC or anything, and fill our gay quota, it was about the vibe).
But we never got anywhere.
Once Claire (the full on activist) became part of our crew, she brought the gay crowd with her, again, none of this was planned or expected, my whole introduction to her was purely through her music that she sent to me as a demo). The parties improved loads more of the gay crowd turned up, and we got to do bigger venues, and we got just what we wanted, a really mixed and lively PLUR crowd. (I might add that our events weren't techno events specifically, the main room we only booked live electronic music acts of any genre, if we liked it, it got booked), and our second room rotated different crews, record labels, genres (I think we were the first in Brighton to bring dubstep down there), basically we got in people as guests to feature their label or crew or event in the second room, so the music changed from week to week, as long as it was fresh and underground.....

One of the things Claire and her friends used to say to us is that they were happy to come and not have some present agenda. Everyone was welcome, nothing was an issue, there was just the music and good vibes.
If anyone was a dick, we threw them out... Artists included.

The only reason those parties stopped is highly unfortunate. 2 of our crew died in a short span of time. Claire died of cancer, and our drum and bass guy, Dave, died of a hidden congenital heart condition.
That tore us up and none of us felt we could continue, it was too traumatic.
It's a shame because those parties were a beacon of don'tgiveafuckness and inclusion, and we're getting really big.
I've still not been to anything similar since.

I'm massively digressing, and I'm not trying to make myself appear to be some social justice hero or anything. Quite the opposite, don't give a fuck, and didn't give a fuck and it's not why we did what we did.
Everyone got called a cunt equally, everyone got affection and also the piss taken out of them equally.... It's why I like subsekt at its best.

I don't see why all events can't be run this way. Just get the fuck on with it.
No fucking flag waving, just put on a good party, with good music and good people.

The fact we have had these conversations a number of times on here is fucking weird to me.
Has all the rave spirit gone from events or something?
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by mainst09 »

WE WANT MARXISM-LENINISM OUT OF OUR SCENE NOW, ITS KILLING US THEY ALL WANT TO APPROPRIATE MY ELECTRIBE. FUCK THAT
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Hades »

Root wrote: So, do you know me or anything about my priorities by one thread here? I just asked for a list, not for this endless discussion. There are so many assumptions about my intentions in here, without knowing anything about the festival, the background or me. I just wrote that we want to act as a counterbalance to discrimination and that we want to leave to leave sexism, homphobia, nazis, capitalism, machoism,... outside. I did not write how we want to do this, how we discuss this topic, how the complete booking process and the selection will be done, how we're gonna promote the festival, what the info's will be, who else will be there and what's happening beneath the technofloor for four days, ...... I did not write it, because it wasn't my intention. Everyone's just assuming.
You are leaving out parts of my words.
I get why, but that does make whatever I said sound worse than the way I said them above.

Important to me, so I'll repeat it here :
They're just having us run in circles fighting each other till eternity
;)

In case it wasn't obvious, I was talking in general, about endless discussions about all this equality number discussions, I was not addressing myself specifically to you.
The only time I was specifically talking about you, was when I said "even if OP says "ah, but I don't want to be making a crap line-up just because it's perfect in the gender equality thing, of course their music has to be good as well"
The flaw in that way of thinking, to me, is still that he looks first at that gender thing,
and then starts listening to the music."

Notice the words "to me" in there.

So no, I was not talking about your priorities in any way, but about the priorities our society seems focusing on all the time lately.
I was however saying I consider it wrong that it's a bigger priority for you that someone has the right color of skin or gender than what they do.
We just have different opinions on the subject. :)
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Hades »

Root wrote:And now.. so many in here consider it important to refuse this idea instead of helping me out. Wow. One should ask himself: why is it so important to me, to refuse the idea of a balanced booking or of a counterbalance to discrimination? "OMG, there is not gonna be a whole white male booking, danger! We're gonna get discriminated!"
Like you said : one should ask himself : why am I opposing this idea of a balanced booking ?
I am not opposing this. I am merely expressing my opinion on this subject. Opposing would mean, at least in my opinion, me boycotting the thing or whatever.
You are of course totally free to do whatever you want.

But since you raise the question and say we should ask ourselves why : in my opinion, you will not have a balanced booking. Because to me a balanced booking would mean a musically balanced booking.
Sure, you might have a balanced booking gender or racial wise, but if I would go to this event, I couldn't really give a fuck if the people performing there would be behind a screen and I would never get to know their color of skin or whatever gender they have. I would just be listening to the music.

Last thought : I have this impression our current times have become almost like the 50's Mccarthyism in the US. If somehow you are not agreeing 100% with whatever idea is politically correct in our current times, you must be either a racist or against women or pro-gender inequality or whatever. Like back then you were considered possibly "dangerous" just when you had an open mind. You are now considered a possible racist/sexist/whateverist when you don't fully agree, or even just want to raise the question "umm, not so sure if that's a good idea, tbh".

I was just thinking yesterday... in the last 2 years I had Pedro over for 2 weeks and later for 2 months, then recently I had Othman over for 2 weeks, and SHIDZO for 3 days.
Now, Pedro is half black, so that would mean I have the black part covered for 5 weeks full, or 10 weeks half ? (gotta think in those equality numbers here) And Othman is Berber, so I got that part covered for a few weeks. But SHIDZO, the poor lad, is only white. So does that mean I am helping this world to become a better place by doing some positive discrimination ? Should I consider inviting some more whites now to balance the numbers out ? (because following your train of thought above, I should now think "danger, the white folks are getting discriminated here)
Should that mean that if I wanted to invite Jordan next, I can't do that, because he's not white and I gotta get my numbers balanced ?

Come on now, I couldn't give a flying fuck, nor could they, about what they looked like, or what I looked like. We liked each other as persons, and we had a great time working on music.

Obviously, I know I can't really compare a get together with a festival, but you get my point, no ?
Like Steve said : it shouldn't be an issue. It becomes an issue when you make it an issue.
Root wrote: / thx dubdub and the others who provided some names. gonna check these out, maybe throw some of them into the booking pool when fine to me and will go on.. cheers
I gave you a name : Stace ! ;)
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Mono-xID »

I haven't seen Stacy for ages around here...could it be because of the fuckery going on here ????
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

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Or to give you an example a bit more linked to Steve's example of the gay community.

One of my very best friends is gay.
When he (finally) told us, our group of friends were in the 1st or 2nd year of university.
He told me several months after he told the rest because I lived in a different city.
From all the friends back then, I'm the only one he still kept.
Last sunday, I went to play at the baptism of their 2nd adopted kid, and my mrs is his godmother.
We barely discuss this stuff, but whenever we do, the general consensus is just that one of the reasons they slowly stopped seeing the rest of that group of friends was that it was somehow an issue for them. Or they would have something against it, but would hide it because they wouldn't want to be called anti-gay or whatever. Or they would go over the top with being pro-gay to almost embarrassing levels. All they ever wanted was to be accepted, feel at ease and not awkward in some way.

In their younger years, obviously, they went to gay prides here or there (me and my mrs once took a picture on the Love parade in '99 from a gay dressed up as a cowboy with his ass completely naked, they enlarged it and framed it and hung it up the wall for years. They only took it down when their first kid arrived :D ), but the last time they went to a gay pride, they took their daughter with them, and they just said "man, I think we've had it with that flag waving shit, we felt looked at by all the rest as if we were the most boring settled down gay couple there is".

I am happy I have such close gay friends in my close circle of friends, because it shows my kids from a very early age that all kinds of love and relationships are possible.
I'm also very happy to have friends from different cultures, nationalities, languages,...
Again, it can only broaden the horizon of my kids.
(just as it broadens mine from time to time I'm sure)
But it's not like I actively went out looking for that, just to "balance things out" in my circle of friends. I was lucky enough to meet some nice people, we stay in touch, we help each other out, we hang out and have a good time, that's the main reason why we get along.
All the other stuff is not an issue.
And I hope my kids see this : it's not an issue.

I found out the kindergarden teacher of my youngest was lesbian, at the very end of last year,
and only because she told me directly. We always got along great, and I was amazed at how probably nobody ever knew or suspected anything (I'll include myself to that list, though I think "suspecting" might be a wrong choice of words, because it incorporates some form of negative judgement, but yeah, I hope you get my point). She literally told me how she told her colleagues after being there for about 2 years, and how happy she was no one said anything about that, and she only got the best possible respect.
Afterwards, I couldn't help but wonder : I wish she somehow said this to her class, even if it were only to show them that we got all kinds of people and relationships in this world.
But on the other hand, I can totally understand that she just wants to be seen as a good teacher, and thinks her sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.
It doesn't mean that because you just happen to be born black that all you have to do is spend tons of time fighting racism everywhere, and it doesn't mean that because you're gay/lesbian/... that you gotta be waving the flag everywhere. People just want to live their lives, and who can disagree with that ?

Anyway, what's my point ? I guess all of the above made me realize that people are so much more than their color of skin and/or sexual orientation. So when you start doing positive discrimination based on that, I think you are exactly reducing them once more to their color of skin and/or sexual orientation. In our case, people are musicians first, and then all the rest is just all the rest, and all the rest should never be an issue.

end of my rambling... :oops:
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Hades »

Mono-xID wrote:I haven't seen Stacy for ages around here...could it be because of the fuckery going on here ????

:idea: :idea: :idea:
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

Mono-xID wrote:I haven't seen Stacy for ages around here...could it be because of the fuckery going on here ????
She had a sex change, she goes by the name Brian now.
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

Have some Steve Hughes

youtu.be/_iY35NeiElg
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by terryfalafel »

Hades wrote:Or to give you an example a bit more linked to Steve's example of the gay community.

One of my very best friends is gay.
When he (finally) told us, our group of friends were in the 1st or 2nd year of university.
He told me several months after he told the rest because I lived in a different city.
From all the friends back then, I'm the only one he still kept.
Last sunday, I went to play at the baptism of their 2nd adopted kid, and my mrs is his godmother.
We barely discuss this stuff, but whenever we do, the general consensus is just that one of the reasons they slowly stopped seeing the rest of that group of friends was that it was somehow an issue for them. Or they would have something against it, but would hide it because they wouldn't want to be called anti-gay or whatever. Or they would go over the top with being pro-gay to almost embarrassing levels. All they ever wanted was to be accepted, feel at ease and not awkward in some way.

In their younger years, obviously, they went to gay prides here or there (me and my mrs once took a picture on the Love parade in '99 from a gay dressed up as a cowboy with his ass completely naked, they enlarged it and framed it and hung it up the wall for years. They only took it down when their first kid arrived :D ), but the last time they went to a gay pride, they took their daughter with them, and they just said "man, I think we've had it with that flag waving shit, we felt looked at by all the rest as if we were the most boring settled down gay couple there is".

I am happy I have such close gay friends in my close circle of friends, because it shows my kids from a very early age that all kinds of love and relationships are possible.
I'm also very happy to have friends from different cultures, nationalities, languages,...
Again, it can only broaden the horizon of my kids.
(just as it broadens mine from time to time I'm sure)
But it's not like I actively went out looking for that, just to "balance things out" in my circle of friends. I was lucky enough to meet some nice people, we stay in touch, we help each other out, we hang out and have a good time, that's the main reason why we get along.
All the other stuff is not an issue.
And I hope my kids see this : it's not an issue.

I found out the kindergarden teacher of my youngest was lesbian, at the very end of last year,
and only because she told me directly. We always got along great, and I was amazed at how probably nobody ever knew or suspected anything (I'll include myself to that list, though I think "suspecting" might be a wrong choice of words, because it incorporates some form of negative judgement, but yeah, I hope you get my point). She literally told me how she told her colleagues after being there for about 2 years, and how happy she was no one said anything about that, and she only got the best possible respect.
Afterwards, I couldn't help but wonder : I wish she somehow said this to her class, even if it were only to show them that we got all kinds of people and relationships in this world.
But on the other hand, I can totally understand that she just wants to be seen as a good teacher, and thinks her sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.
It doesn't mean that because you just happen to be born black that all you have to do is spend tons of time fighting racism everywhere, and it doesn't mean that because you're gay/lesbian/... that you gotta be waving the flag everywhere. People just want to live their lives, and who can disagree with that ?

Anyway, what's my point ? I guess all of the above made me realize that people are so much more than their color of skin and/or sexual orientation. So when you start doing positive discrimination based on that, I think you are exactly reducing them once more to their color of skin and/or sexual orientation. In our case, people are musicians first, and then all the rest is just all the rest, and all the rest should never be an issue.

end of my rambling... :oops:
Some nice sentiments in this post mate, nice one :-)

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Mattias »

wayfinder wrote: I especially disagree with treating everyone the same being the best way to eliminate inequality.
What the flying fuck? You're advocating discrimination. Cool.
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

wayfinder wrote: Void, I especially disagree with treating everyone the same being the best way to eliminate inequality. What it really does is slow the speed of inequality growth. To create equality, previously disenfranchised people must receive preferred treatment. There's no other way. If you've been steering your car toward a ditch, you need to correct your course, not just straighten the wheel—you're still heading for the ditch otherwise
That's because you are confused and infected with white-knightism.

Discrimination is treating someone differently on the grounds of race age or sex. That is literally the definition.

So literally the best way to deal with this is to treat everyone the same (though obviously not so far as some lefties would like, where everybody gets a go, and you decide to employ someone with a low IQ as the person who works out the launch trajectory of the space shuttle or something), otherwise you are discriminating. Preferential treatment is discrimination, it's also, dumb.

Your car analogy doesn't work. If the ditch is prejudice in your analogy, then by your solution, the next thing to do is to steer for the ditch on the other side of the road.
Whereas non_discrimination would be to merely return to the middle is the road, and carry on your way, aiming for no ditches.

Whilst the fight fire with fire approach can be fun, basically everything gets burned to shit.
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