Technoacts that are not white males

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Root
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Root »

Guys, i'm booking on talent and moral, that's why i asked here. But you can't deny that a whole white male lineup (what happens often) is based on social discrimination. What's the Problem with trying to not reproduce this. Sure, we're not gonna book a wack lineup that's maximum divers.
And no, there is no such thing as discriminating white males with this post, just as a 50/50 male-female lineup won't be. I don't know a lot female DJs, if you do, let me know. Especially no big names..
:geek:

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by dubdub »

chava wrote:
dubdub wrote: The idea that you can just seperate techno and racial identity is bizzare. Those early detroit records were all playing with racial identity and questioning, what is blackness, what is whiteness etc. The Belleville guys were all a bunch of black nerds so they didn't really fit in anywhere and dreamt up some kind of fantasy Europe. And then in return the europeans developed a fascination with Detroit and blackness very early.
The idea that you can reduce techno or any other cultural production to a question of race or gender is equally bizarre. I know that this is taught at 'critical theory' classes at University, but it is a seriously destructive mode of interpreting the world.
And this 'safe space' idea need to go unless it is actually addressing questioning of physical safety. As in maybe it is a ok idea not to let 10 drunken 'bros' inside a club full of transvestites.

Also people should really question the concept of 'diversity'. I mean a guy like Aphex Twin has probably done more to 'diversify' techno than a full lineup of your safe space festival.
Who here said anything about reducing it down to race or gender? As if acknowledging any sort of racial dynamics in this music suddenly destroys all possibility of aesthetic discourse and turns it into a sociology 101 assignment. Seriously, that's a total straw man argument that comes up every time someone suggest that art is necessarily related to it's sociopolitical context. Look, I spent more time arguing against identity politics than anything but we need to acknowledge a certain level of sociocultural and political reality if we don't want to look like out of touch ignorant white dudes.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by [wesellboxes] »

HowieRis wrote:If I was a black DJ and I got an email from you after seeing this thread, I'd most likely think I was being selected based on skin colour rather than merit. Not good.
So I'm guessing you're not a black DJ and therefore not came up against the prejudices and the bullshit they or a female DJ may have had dealt with. Of course everything should be done on merit but then it's far from a level playing field to begin with.

The next time anyone chances across a live Boiler Room stream with a female DJ, watch the comments section and see how just how much shite gets posted. Either misogynistic hateful crap, everything millisecond of her technique held to scrutiny and the slightest of errors jumped on or she's hot and I want to fuck her or she's fucking ugly, get off my screen.

Sure it's all coming from bitter wannabes and arseholes, who in the real word struggle with real relationships, but this incoming barrage must be exhausting when all you're trying to do is express yourself creatively and rock a party.

And it isn't even your red pill, mens rights fuckwits either. I saw a tweet last week from a booker of the major European festivals that going to start publicly shaming the dick pictures she gets. She said this isn't randoms either but from actual people working in the industry.

So yeah, good on you Root for contributing to the solution and I would suggest Dasha Rush for your party. Seen her play live a few times, everything from experimental drone in an art gallery through to banging out the pounders at 3am. Helena Hauff is probably out of your budget now given the accolades she finished 2017 with. It might also be worth getting in contact with Eclair Fifi who plays on the deeper, more music side of techno. Her parents were apparently regulars at iconic techno club Pure and she's grew up with it from birth.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by dubdub »

Root wrote:I don't know a lot female DJs, if you do, let me know. Especially no big names..
Mareena (detroity techno and dubtechno)
Dr. Rubinstein (acid-y and trance-y techno)
Kate Miller (a bit more house-y, very detroit-y)
Mad Alba (pretty fast, banging techno)
Esther Dujin (detroit-y house/techno)
Anja Zaube (darker, drone-y techno)
Claire Morgan (harder, detroit-y techno)
Cinthie (classic jacking, dubby house)
Elisabeth (tough, chicago-ish house)
Daniela La Luz (live act, detroit-y house and techno)

These are all Berlin based and very good. I've personally seen all of them and can attest they're the real deal. I would book them for my own party, which says a lot since I'm not very impressed by most DJs I hear. Dr. Rubinstein has been blowing up a bit but the rest of them are quite underrated and mostly play local and should be easy to book.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Mono-xID »

The only important thing is: When and where is the party and can you put me on the guest list???
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by dubdub »

Root wrote:Guys, i'm booking on talent and moral, that's why i asked here. But you can't deny that a whole white male lineup (what happens often) is based on social discrimination. What's the Problem with trying to not reproduce this. Sure, we're not gonna book a wack lineup that's maximum divers.
And no, there is no such thing as discriminating white males with this post, just as a 50/50 male-female lineup won't be. I don't know a lot female DJs, if you do, let me know. Especially no big names..
You're doing a good job with the booking. The only thing that's whack IMO is when people promote a party based on the diversity of the lineup, like with these all-female collectives throwing parties or parties that are apparently saving the world by doing 50:50 bookings. It comes across as very gimmicky. Just throw the lineup out there and don't say anything about the diversity, the people that care will notice.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by intrusav »

Mono-xID wrote:The only important thing is: When and where is the party and can you put me on the guest list???
Mono, you crack me up but I think you just hit the nail on the head! Have a good one ..

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by juodas »

The things is, that race it's a image, why you need that, everyone is equal, and everyone has a different taste, of music, so i think you get a point what i mean, i'm just to lazy to explain

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Mattias »

Root wrote:Guys, i'm booking on talent and moral, that's why i asked here. But you can't deny that a whole white male lineup (what happens often) is based on social discrimination.
This happens when (almost) all the bigger established event organizers only see money. That's where we are now. Check all big area "we-pretend-we're-a-festival" kind of club or big ass festivals. Check Awakenings line ups and so forth. Sure there are the occasional Kraviz / Moudaber / Lens / line ups at those parties too but not really about diversity.

Even if you go exclusively in the Berlin area there should be many too check out. Go visit the proper underground parties and check them out and ask them to play?
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by HowieRis »

[wesellboxes] wrote:
So I'm guessing you're not a black DJ and therefore not came up against the prejudices and the bullshit they or a female DJ may have had dealt with. Of course everything should be done on merit but then it's far from a level playing field to begin with.
You're guessing correctly. Perhaps you're right, maybe it is more difficult to be accepted if you're in the minority ethnically speaking, but from my perspective party scenes in Europe and Aus aren't hung up on that stuff at all.

Regarding merit; Maybe I don't even mean artistic or technical merit... I mean, just book people you admire and wanna be associated with.

I'm honestly not coming at this from an anti-SJW standpoint or anything and I'd much much rather be part of a diverse scene than not, it's just going on the internet like "hey do you guys know any non white or non male DJs I can use so my party looks more virtuous, because I can't think of any?!" slightly raises an eyebrow.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by rsntr »

It's kinda strange to have the desire to book diverse artists for a festival but then to not know who to book. If there is sufficient diverse talent out there (I suppose there is) and a real interest in discovering that talent, one would already know some undervalued and undiscovered artists and be keen to offer them a platform. Maybe taking a step back is in order to contemplate why one only notices white male artists.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by [wesellboxes] »

HowieRis wrote:but from my perspective party scenes in Europe and Aus aren't hung up on that stuff at all.
I always thought that too, but then just this week you had a white drum and bass producer using blatantly racist terms that begin with N and P, not overly sorry about it and a disheartening percentage of people actually supporting him online.
HowieRis wrote:I'm honestly not coming at this from an anti-SJW standpoint or anything and I'd much much rather be part of a diverse scene than not,
Yeah, I get that
HowieRis wrote:it's just going on the internet like "hey do you guys know any non white or non male DJs I can use so my party looks more virtuous, because I can't think of any?!" slightly raises an eyebrow.
I think it's all where we are in 2018 with identity politics, I despise them too and would make rather people focused on poverty, schools, health provision and the like. Without getting too tin foil hat I don't doubt there is a drive to keep us all bickering about this kind of stuff to effectively keep us away from the real issues I've just mentioned, divide and rule and all that. And not only does it work at first tier, it has people second guessing each other allies i.e this thread.

That said, I'm not female and when I read first hand accounts of some of the shit they go through, especially online, then I'll support whatever tips the back the right way. I think we're all in agreement though that it's shit that any of this has developed or there's a need in the first place.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by [wesellboxes] »

rsntr wrote:It's kinda strange to have the desire to book diverse artists for a festival but then to not know who to book. If there is sufficient diverse talent out there (I suppose there is) and a real interest in discovering that talent, one would already know some undervalued and undiscovered artists and be keen to offer them a platform. Maybe taking a step back is in order to contemplate why one only notices white male artists.
I dunno, I was involved in a few parties for a women's fashion label launch where the remit was female DJ's. When the agency kept offering Big Brother contestants and glamour models I decided to put this corporate money to proper use. Changed the remit to a working but up and coming DJ that would appreciate the fee. Technically competent both with mixing and tune selection. Only the agencies had already proved themselves useless and I didn't know any house/deep house females that fitted the bill and had to put the feelers out online. No SJW, virtue signalling or whatever it's called. Just me doing my job and while not the most hedonistic party of a lifetime, a decent paying gig for the DJ's

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

dubdub wrote:
Root wrote:Guys, i'm booking on talent and moral, that's why i asked here. But you can't deny that a whole white male lineup (what happens often) is based on social discrimination. What's the Problem with trying to not reproduce this. Sure, we're not gonna book a wack lineup that's maximum divers.
And no, there is no such thing as discriminating white males with this post, just as a 50/50 male-female lineup won't be. I don't know a lot female DJs, if you do, let me know. Especially no big names..
You're doing a good job with the booking. The only thing that's whack IMO is when people promote a party based on the diversity of the lineup, like with these all-female collectives throwing parties or parties that are apparently saving the world by doing 50:50 bookings. It comes across as very gimmicky. Just throw the lineup out there and don't say anything about the diversity, the people that care will notice.
Which was my point. Don't make it an issue, just be fair.
Making it an issue makes it an issue.
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

[wesellboxes] wrote:
HowieRis wrote:but from my perspective party scenes in Europe and Aus aren't hung up on that stuff at all.
I always thought that too, but then just this week you had a white drum and bass producer using blatantly racist terms that begin with N and P, not overly sorry about it and a disheartening percentage of people actually supporting him online.

I saw an overwhelming amount of people absolutely destroying him for his opinions.
To the point it made all the major dance music magazine portals etc.
The guy shit his nappy and smeared it all over his playroom on that one.

The only thing is, being the fucking dance music scene, a place filled with the desperate who will do anything just for a little suck on the fame titty, I give it 2 months and everybody will love him again.

Because every other cunt that has been outed for being an uttercunt is still operating today.

Integrity is a superfluous quality these days, which is a bigger issue than all this SJW bullshit. There's so much fake about, sometimes you have to wonder if this is all VR.
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Root
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Root »

dubdub wrote:You're doing a good job with the booking. The only thing that's whack IMO is when people promote a party based on the diversity of the lineup, like with these all-female collectives throwing parties or parties that are apparently saving the world by doing 50:50 bookings. It comes across as very gimmicky. Just throw the lineup out there and don't say anything about the diversity, the people that care will notice.
You're right. That's not what I'm after. It wasn't my intention to promote the festival here, I just wanted to widen my list of possible bookings. And I'm also not aiming at a perfectly calculated 50/50 lineup in any way. We're doing this just we want to contribute to a fair booking. Thanks for your list!!

juodas wrote:The things is, that race it's a image, why you need that, everyone is equal, and everyone has a different taste, of music, so i think you get a point what i mean, i'm just to lazy to explain
I don't need this image, but it's there and powerful. And no, everyone isn't equal. Just watch the news.

Mattias wrote: Even if you go exclusively in the Berlin area there should be many too check out. Go visit the proper underground parties and check them out and ask them to play?
Yes, that's what's happening. As I live too far away from Berlin I'm not there, but others of the festivalcrew have a lot of good connections already or work on them.


rsntr wrote:It's kinda strange to have the desire to book diverse artists for a festival but then to not know who to book. If there is sufficient diverse talent out there (I suppose there is) and a real interest in discovering that talent, one would already know some undervalued and undiscovered artists and be keen to offer them a platform. Maybe taking a step back is in order to contemplate why one only notices white male artists.
Yes, i do know some. But not enough to fill a whole 50 hours lineup. And where's the problem to ask for inspiration in a proper board, where some guys (haha) are around, that might have some good ideas. And even beside the lineup thingy it's just great to have a lot of experience here and to check new names and music styles out.
:geek:

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by winston »

Root wrote: ...as there is a superiority of white males...
things didn't go well the last time a german said this and started making plans for large groups of minorities to be in their own "zones"

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by chava »

dubdub wrote:
Who here said anything about reducing it down to race or gender? As if acknowledging any sort of racial dynamics in this music suddenly destroys all possibility of aesthetic discourse and turns it into a sociology 101 assignment. Seriously, that's a total straw man argument that comes up every time someone suggest that art is necessarily related to it's sociopolitical context. Look, I spent more time arguing against identity politics than anything but we need to acknowledge a certain level of sociocultural and political reality if we don't want to look like out of touch ignorant white dudes.
Fine by me, sorry if I came off a bit too categorical I just get a big triggered when these debates surface as if techno is somehow consciously or 'structurally' keeping minorites and women out. I truly do not believe that.

But what did became of (black) detroit techno? That totally died out in the 00's and with very few exceptions has been almost extinct ever since.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by P0607r0n »

[wesellboxes] wrote:
I think it's all where we are in 2018 with identity politics, I despise them too and would make rather people focused on poverty, schools, health provision and the like. Without getting too tin foil hat I don't doubt there is a drive to keep us all bickering about this kind of stuff to effectively keep us away from the real issues I've just mentioned, divide and rule and all that. And not only does it work at first tier, it has people second guessing each other allies i.e this thread.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ydU5g8UUmSc

I'll just leave it here and will go grab the popcorn m'kay?

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Prophän »

dubdub wrote: And for the love of god, please don't mention Nina Kraviz with those other two.
Let's not derail the thread but I was referring to the whole hype going on around them not about what they play or their music, some people like, other don't it's a matter of taste which can not really be discussed or argued about.
dubdub wrote: The idea that you can just seperate techno and racial identity is bizzare. Those early detroit records were all playing with racial identity and questioning, what is blackness, what is whiteness etc. The Belleville guys were all a bunch of black nerds so they didn't really fit in anywhere and dreamt up some kind of fantasy Europe. And then in return the europeans developed a fascination with Detroit and blackness very early.
I can't see what techno has to do with racial identity since it's not limited to early detroit, if we follow your reasoning than the whole techno scene today is nothing but a big cultural appropriation.

Also you're talking about detroit guys , I'd like to hear a senegalese toughts on this as well .


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