It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:28 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:05 pm 
Offline
Face Hugger

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:02 am
Posts: 40
Location: Brooklyn NY
I think it might be your area. Where I am it's always a pretty good ratio, and most of the crowd know who they're seeing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:48 am 
Offline
Opposite
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:04 pm
Posts: 78
Bit late to the party by the looks of things but just want to say that i always see a good ratio of male to female at techno events.

Ive actually always been surprised at the amount of sexy females i see... But seeing a girl with her hair tied back, completely lost in the music bumps them up in points for me. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:39 am 
Offline
Ding Dong
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 2579
RWise wrote:
But seeing a girl with her hair tied back, completely lost in the music bumps them up in points for me. :D


What happens if she hasn't got her hair tied back?

What happens if she has, but isn't completely lost in the music?

What happens if she has both conditions, but in the process of getting lost, she loses her hair tie?

What about if she's recovering from chemo and music is her only escape, but due to the hair loss, she can't get any bonus points from you?

Do you have any other parameters for scoring sexy females at techno events? If so, please detail here.

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/jordan-louis



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:57 pm 
Offline
Opposite
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:04 pm
Posts: 78
jordanneke wrote:
RWise wrote:
But seeing a girl with her hair tied back, completely lost in the music bumps them up in points for me. :D


What happens if she hasn't got her hair tied back?

What happens if she has, but isn't completely lost in the music?

What happens if she has both conditions, but in the process of getting lost, she loses her hair tie?

What about if she's recovering from chemo and music is her only escape, but due to the hair loss, she can't get any bonus points from you?

Do you have any other parameters for scoring sexy females at techno events? If so, please detail here.


Nah if she aint got her hair tied back shes a 0/10.

Recovering chemo patients are an acceptance though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:16 am 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8703
Image

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:02 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:02 am
Posts: 8607
terryfalafel wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
WHY IN GOD'S NAME AM I JUST DISCOVERING DOUG STANHOPE?


Yeah, kind of revelatory isn't he!

The clip I normally point people towards as a measure of whether they'll like his comedy or not is the 'Myspace Peadophiles' bit on YouTube.


Just watched that clip (had seen it some time before but no idea when)

know what really makes me think ?
the fact that if I'd have to make a rough guess,
I think 90% of all these people that say they fucking love humor like that,
act like politically correct folks all the time as soon as they feel conformism dictates them to do so.
The guy on the stage can say funny shit, the others gotta stay politically correct.
It's fucking hilariously ironic...
It makes me cringe all the time...

_________________
"Much of the beauty that arises in art comes from the struggle an artist wages with his limited medium"
Henri Matisse



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:16 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:02 am
Posts: 8607
jordanneke wrote:
So, what was the conclusion? Why don't girls like techno?

Why is it mostly men into beer and beer festivals?
Why can't I find something in my house without my wife's help?
How many clothes/shoes do women need?
Why is it weird to have a man working in a creche?
Why are rom-coms targeted at women?
How come every time I pick a film it can't have an alien/aliens in it?
Why don't black people like death metal?


:lol: :lol:

You made my day with this one Jordan ! :D

I love a guy that makes observations,
just observations,
based on what he sees, and only then asks himself questions which might (or might not) bring in race or gender.
Why do we live in times where your questions are already judged as racist and/or sexist as soon as you make an observation ?
Back when I was still working nightshifts, I used to have a certain car rental company as a regular customer,
and 80% of the folks that got into trouble with their rented car/small truck were from a certain part of our population here in Belgium (I'm trying to say this as vague as possible). I always wondered why ?
But if I would be more specific I would get called names that have nothing to do with who I am or what I believe in, even if all I'm trying to do, is understand our current society better. (I mean, is there a sociological, psychological, financial,... reason I get the some folks on the line ? I just couldn't help but wonder about this.)

But anyway... Jordan, there used to be a small series of books that were popular here in Belgium, called "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", and I'll always remember this one "wisdom" in there :
why do women always love to buy shoes ?? (my mrs is actually not a shoe-whore, but never mind that)
because if they gain weight, their shoes are the only piece of clothing they'll never have a problem fitting in to most of the times.
I always found that such a rational explanation for a thing that just baffles most men... :lol:
No idea if it's true or not, but I liked the explanation anyway... 8-)

_________________
"Much of the beauty that arises in art comes from the struggle an artist wages with his limited medium"
Henri Matisse



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:32 am 
Offline
Tragopan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:51 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Sheffield
jordanneke wrote:
RWise wrote:
But seeing a girl with her hair tied back, completely lost in the music bumps them up in points for me. :D


What happens if she hasn't got her hair tied back?

What happens if she has, but isn't completely lost in the music?

What happens if she has both conditions, but in the process of getting lost, she loses her hair tie?

What about if she's recovering from chemo and music is her only escape, but due to the hair loss, she can't get any bonus points from you?

Do you have any other parameters for scoring sexy females at techno events? If so, please detail here.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can't believe this thread is still even going.

_________________
Mixes and ting

winston wrote:
their common goal seems to be to live in some bdsm-unicorn utopia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:31 am 
Offline
Previous
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 am
Posts: 1697
Seriously though, I've always wondered why so very few women are into the production side of things? I can understand it more easily in rock and metal for example, where a stereotypical fellow rock musician/producer might think that you're an inferior musician because of your sex.

But in techno, nowadays, anyone can buy a DAW and plugins online, lock herself into the basement for 5 years, even get releases and stuff without ever having to interact with the potentially sexist other techno people. Until you want to play gigs your sex is completely meaningless (and even then being female can be an advantage, though I do understand why that can be a bad thing as well).

Because of this it's really difficult for me to understand why something like less than 5% (my guess) of techno producers are female. It's very easy to start if you already have a computer and an Internet account and you don't need to see anyone if you don't want.

_________________
"I don't shower every day, but when I do, I do it after listening to some Barfunkel" - Anonymous

http://soundcloud.com/user4904810
http://www.mixcloud.com/Barfunkel/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:19 pm 
Offline
Pig

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:08 pm
Posts: 120
You might re-read the thread to find an answer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:10 pm 
Offline
refusenik
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:10 am
Posts: 290
Barfunkel wrote:
Seriously though, I've always wondered why so very few women are into the production side of things? I can understand it more easily in rock and metal for example, where a stereotypical fellow rock musician/producer might think that you're an inferior musician because of your sex.

But in techno, nowadays, anyone can buy a DAW and plugins online, lock herself into the basement for 5 years, even get releases and stuff without ever having to interact with the potentially sexist other techno people. Until you want to play gigs your sex is completely meaningless (and even then being female can be an advantage, though I do understand why that can be a bad thing as well).

Because of this it's really difficult for me to understand why something like less than 5% (my guess) of techno producers are female. It's very easy to start if you already have a computer and an Internet account and you don't need to see anyone if you don't want.


how are they supposed to instagram/facebook/whateverelse it for attention if they are being productive and locked away?
the ones that do, do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:08 pm 
Offline
Opposite
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:04 pm
Posts: 78
Barfunkel wrote:
Seriously though, I've always wondered why so very few women are into the production side of things? I can understand it more easily in rock and metal for example, where a stereotypical fellow rock musician/producer might think that you're an inferior musician because of your sex.

But in techno, nowadays, anyone can buy a DAW and plugins online, lock herself into the basement for 5 years, even get releases and stuff without ever having to interact with the potentially sexist other techno people. Until you want to play gigs your sex is completely meaningless (and even then being female can be an advantage, though I do understand why that can be a bad thing as well).

Because of this it's really difficult for me to understand why something like less than 5% (my guess) of techno producers are female. It's very easy to start if you already have a computer and an Internet account and you don't need to see anyone if you don't want.


The ones that are genuinely into, are into it and aren't whoring on social media to make sure EVERYONE knows theyre a 'female dj'...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:11 pm 
Offline
Tragopan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:51 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Sheffield
First and foremost I think accessibility to into music production can be an unfathomably giant hurdle.
Before I started making music I was genuinely of the belief it was some kind of dark art. This is coming from a place and a time where it was more accessible than ever. There was a wealth of YouTube videos and books at my disposal but opening a DAW for the first time on your own can seem incredibly daunting.
It is a big piece of complicated, powerful software and you have no idea how to do anything on it. Alleviating the big first hurdle for anyone who wants to start making music is imperative.
Anyone can do anything they want (within reason) when they are given the tools to have are inspired to do so. I think if more females knew they *could* make music then there would be a greater uptake of it. In my opinion, it has never been earlier to become a producer.


Pretty much all of the magazines that are female-centric and aimed at girls don’t discuss anything other than clothes, shoes, makeup and hair. Why is that? Is that all females are interested in? I genuinely don’t think that is that case but when you are constantly lead down that path eventually you will follow it of your own accord as you don’t know any differently.
Now, that isn’t the fault of the girls who are reading that, it is the fault of society in general.
A very quick look on the Toys R Us site further confirms this, starting these unhelpful gender roles at an incredibly young age - there is is a Thomas & Friends TrackMaster Treasure Chase Set on sale, next to a Disney Princess Tea Trolley Set, there is a small boy playing with the trains and a little girl playing with the trolley set. This isn’t simply down to the fact that boys like trains and girls like tea sets, there isn’t a person on this earth who is born liking trains sets, they are taught to, by their parents but mostly by society (I count myself as one of the lucky ones who had a train set AND tea set)
Music production IS technical and if you haven’t been raised an environment that promotes technical ability in some way then making your way into music tech or any tech for that matter is going to be exponentially more challenging.

There are also a few incredibly unhelpful attitudes floating around in smallish parts of the industry, not all of it but from time to time I’ll see the old “Why are there no many female producers” meme out there on Twitter (because they don’t understand Logic OR Reason apparently) While I don’t think these memes are shared out of an inherently sexist attitude, they are CERTAINLY not helping address the disproportionate balance of male to female producers. People don’t think of the impact it might have before they choose to share such Tweets.

One of my ex-favourite producers (I flatly refuse to support anyone who has such an abhorrent attitude as Conforce) made a sexist comment about how Lady Starlight should stick to the nail art as she wasn’t very good at music.
Having seen Lady Starlight perform live twice in the last 2 years I can categorically call bullshit on that comment. She is fantastic at what she does and had the whole room jumping. She works alongside Surgeon, you know one of the most highly regarded techno artists there is.
When people who are big in the game, like Conforce come out with comments like that it feels like the industry is being catapulted back to the dark ages. He did receive a fair amount of backlash and people came out in droves in support of Lady Starlight but she is big in the game and has a wealth of support behind her.
What if that had been said to a young female who was just starting out in music tech? I can’t say it wouldn’t have have made me think twice about being involved in music technology. Young egos are fragile and need to be nurtured not shot down by unhelpful attitudes.

_________________
Mixes and ting

winston wrote:
their common goal seems to be to live in some bdsm-unicorn utopia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:18 pm 
Offline
Tragopan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:51 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Sheffield
RWise wrote:
Barfunkel wrote:
Seriously though, I've always wondered why so very few women are into the production side of things? I can understand it more easily in rock and metal for example, where a stereotypical fellow rock musician/producer might think that you're an inferior musician because of your sex.

But in techno, nowadays, anyone can buy a DAW and plugins online, lock herself into the basement for 5 years, even get releases and stuff without ever having to interact with the potentially sexist other techno people. Until you want to play gigs your sex is completely meaningless (and even then being female can be an advantage, though I do understand why that can be a bad thing as well).

Because of this it's really difficult for me to understand why something like less than 5% (my guess) of techno producers are female. It's very easy to start if you already have a computer and an Internet account and you don't need to see anyone if you don't want.


The ones that are genuinely into, are into it and aren't whoring on social media to make sure EVERYONE knows theyre a 'female dj'...


Also, if the wimminz want to "whore" themselves let them. The menz never get questioned aboout posting about being 'male DJs'
n.b I will only refer to women as DJ's now and all men DJs as Male DJs. Hope that helps. Missed you cunts x

_________________
Mixes and ting

winston wrote:
their common goal seems to be to live in some bdsm-unicorn utopia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:18 pm 
Offline
Alf Garnett
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:15 pm
Posts: 178
Location: Copenhagen
StacieAnne wrote:
First and foremost I think accessibility to into music production can be an unfathomably giant hurdle.
Before I started making music I was genuinely of the belief it was some kind of dark art. This is coming from a place and a time where it was more accessible than ever. There was a wealth of YouTube videos and books at my disposal but opening a DAW for the first time on your own can seem incredibly daunting.
It is a big piece of complicated, powerful software and you have no idea how to do anything on it. Alleviating the big first hurdle for anyone who wants to start making music is imperative.
Anyone can do anything they want (within reason) when they are given the tools to have are inspired to do so. I think if more females knew they *could* make music then there would be a greater uptake of it. In my opinion, it has never been earlier to become a producer.


Pretty much all of the magazines that are female-centric and aimed at girls don’t discuss anything other than clothes, shoes, makeup and hair. Why is that? Is that all females are interested in? I genuinely don’t think that is that case but when you are constantly lead down that path eventually you will follow it of your own accord as you don’t know any differently.
Now, that isn’t the fault of the girls who are reading that, it is the fault of society in general.
A very quick look on the Toys R Us site further confirms this, starting these unhelpful gender roles at an incredibly young age - there is is a Thomas & Friends TrackMaster Treasure Chase Set on sale, next to a Disney Princess Tea Trolley Set, there is a small boy playing with the trains and a little girl playing with the trolley set. This isn’t simply down to the fact that boys like trains and girls like tea sets, there isn’t a person on this earth who is born liking trains sets, they are taught to, by their parents but mostly by society (I count myself as one of the lucky ones who had a train set AND tea set)
Music production IS technical and if you haven’t been raised an environment that promotes technical ability in some way then making your way into music tech or any tech for that matter is going to be exponentially more challenging.

There are also a few incredibly unhelpful attitudes floating around in smallish parts of the industry, not all of it but from time to time I’ll see the old “Why are there no many female producers” meme out there on Twitter (because they don’t understand Logic OR Reason apparently) While I don’t think these memes are shared out of an inherently sexist attitude, they are CERTAINLY not helping address the disproportionate balance of male to female producers. People don’t think of the impact it might have before they choose to share such Tweets.

One of my ex-favourite producers (I flatly refuse to support anyone who has such an abhorrent attitude as Conforce) made a sexist comment about how Lady Starlight should stick to the nail art as she wasn’t very good at music.
Having seen Lady Starlight perform live twice in the last 2 years I can categorically call bullshit on that comment. She is fantastic at what she does and had the whole room jumping. She works alongside Surgeon, you know one of the most highly regarded techno artists there is.
When people who are big in the game, like Conforce come out with comments like that it feels like the industry is being catapulted back to the dark ages. He did receive a fair amount of backlash and people came out in droves in support of Lady Starlight but she is big in the game and has a wealth of support behind her.
What if that had been said to a young female who was just starting out in music tech? I can’t say it wouldn’t have have made me think twice about being involved in music technology. Young egos are fragile and need to be nurtured not shot down by unhelpful attitudes.


Was there just a bump on this topic? I thought it had disappeared a month ago or so...

anyways I very much agree with you - on a somewhat related note I just noticed today that the two producers I have listened the most to lately is women (that is Søs Gunver Ryberg and Paula Temple) and both of those are gnaaaaarly producers!

When I was young(er) I used to play in a noisy/disco-ish band, and our bassist (and also the only one who knew anything about hacking technology and producing) was a woman. I remember that we had a talk one time about why most women we knew (disclaimer - she's a childhood friend) had stopped making music, and she said that a lot of the women that we grew up and played music with found it very hard to connect being a female teenager and also wanting to sweat in a tiny rehearsal room. That has always made me think that it should be a point of focus, if we should get more women in the industry (I think we should). To somehow connect the idea of maturing (which also includes being attracted to others and especially wanting to be attracted by others) with female technical blossoming.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 am 
Offline
Tragopan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:51 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Sheffield
I mean, that was very much a case of, here's one I prepared earlier. I was helping someone with something and just edited the document a little bit. Obviously, they are all my own thoughts but really, it highlights a problem with society in general as a whole.

I've always said about things like this, especially in the circles I move in, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't actually happen. I think most of you would be hard pressed to name me a point you have been discriminated against due to your gender.

It's all fucking fuckered.

_________________
Mixes and ting

winston wrote:
their common goal seems to be to live in some bdsm-unicorn utopia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:47 am 
Offline
Ding Dong
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 2579
StacieAnne wrote:
RWise wrote:


The ones that are genuinely into, are into it and aren't whoring on social media to make sure EVERYONE knows theyre a 'female dj'...


Also, if the wimminz want to "whore" themselves let them. The menz never get questioned aboout posting about being 'male DJs'
n.b I will only refer to women as DJ's now and all men DJs as Male DJs. Hope that helps. Missed you cunts x


So what if a woman wants to use her looks as a 'weapon' to promote herself, what the fuck does it really matter. We all know that talent alone isn't a recipe for success.

The fact that she's a woman means the playing field isn't level in the first place, why not use different attributes to help?

I mean men do that shit the whole time, just in different ways...looking mean, non smiling, with a gritty industrial backdrop, wearing black. Rappers instagramming their bling life-style, Ronaldo selling millions of t-shirts by posing topless at every available opportunity....

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/jordan-louis



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:49 am 
Offline
Ding Dong
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 2579
PS. The joke about women not understanding Logic or Reason, is actually hilarious.


Like the joke 'If I had a dollar for every time I was called racist, I'd have enough money that blacks would try and rob me'. Wrong, but funny.

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/jordan-louis



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:52 am 
Offline
Ding Dong
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 2579
Hades wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
So, what was the conclusion? Why don't girls like techno?

Why is it mostly men into beer and beer festivals?
Why can't I find something in my house without my wife's help?
How many clothes/shoes do women need?
Why is it weird to have a man working in a creche?
Why are rom-coms targeted at women?
How come every time I pick a film it can't have an alien/aliens in it?
Why don't black people like death metal?


:lol: :lol:

You made my day with this one Jordan ! :D

I love a guy that makes observations,
just observations,
based on what he sees, and only then asks himself questions which might (or might not) bring in race or gender.
Why do we live in times where your questions are already judged as racist and/or sexist as soon as you make an observation ?
Back when I was still working nightshifts, I used to have a certain car rental company as a regular customer,
and 80% of the folks that got into trouble with their rented car/small truck were from a certain part of our population here in Belgium (I'm trying to say this as vague as possible). I always wondered why ?
But if I would be more specific I would get called names that have nothing to do with who I am or what I believe in, even if all I'm trying to do, is understand our current society better. (I mean, is there a sociological, psychological, financial,... reason I get the some folks on the line ? I just couldn't help but wonder about this.)

But anyway... Jordan, there used to be a small series of books that were popular here in Belgium, called "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", and I'll always remember this one "wisdom" in there :
why do women always love to buy shoes ?? (my mrs is actually not a shoe-whore, but never mind that)
because if they gain weight, their shoes are the only piece of clothing they'll never have a problem fitting in to most of the times.
I always found that such a rational explanation for a thing that just baffles most men... :lol:
No idea if it's true or not, but I liked the explanation anyway... 8-)



:D :D That's a funny joke.

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/jordan-louis



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why don't girls like techno?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:24 pm 
Online
On Remand
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:19 pm
Posts: 2951
Location: Sweden
StacieAnne wrote:
I think if more females knew they *could* make music then there would be a greater uptake of it.


Yeah definitely.
Something similar that I've noticed (but still not the same thing) is when it comes to video games (that isn't Facebook app games).
My sister is just as (or even more) crazy when it comes to video games compared to myself and her female friends always been "but we cannot play, we dont know how to". :geek:

_________________
• Music Page: http://www.facebook.com/Mattias.Fridell.Music
• Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/fridell
• Sample packs: http://mfsamples.bandcamp.com

EGRESSING / DESTITUTUS (SUSLTD009)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mainst09 and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
skymiles v1.1 designed by CodeMiles Team -TemplatesDragon-.