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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:15 pm 
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slipper

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Jordan i feel your pain, and agree with everyone else you're more than ready to be signed. I'm still not convinced it's much more than luck and who you know! I've released only one track, not even my favourite and on a pretty commercial label but the only way that happened was I worked with the guy in a professional capacity, and he only listened to the track out of professional courtesy. He was pretty clear that otherwise he wouldn't have.

Dance music is such a small world that any label owner or A&R probably has 20 mates that can fill up his release schedule for years to come without every touching a demo. I actually have some respect for the labels that say on Soundcloud "do not bother sending demos as we do not listen", at least they're honest.

So the point above about "making friends" or whatever is the only one that makes major sense to me. Though of course, it's not easy to penetrate existing groups of friends and associates at the best of times, let alone when the target group is typically staffed by people with incipient drug addictions and/or crippling social anxiety.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:39 am 
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rescued

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Why not just release music yourself? Sure, it costs money and effort if you want to do it properly but you're completely in control and not reliant on someone else's mercy. Also, people who own decent labels might rather become aware of you through your own releases than by sending demos. It also shows that you're confident enough in your own work if you put in your time and money.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:00 am 
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Ding Dong
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Fair point.

I don't want to invest any more of my own money in distributing and marketing. I just want to make music. Which I have already invested nearly all my time in, and a substantial amount of cash.

Plus when it comes to it, the whole thing about labels and getting stuff out there is the network. If you are out there dj-ing or promoting, even if you are clubbing every weekend, you'll accrue social capital and gain access to influential networks to get your stuff heard.

I'm a married middle aged father of three with a career who lives out in the countryside, who makes music on the side. If I went further and got my tunes mastered, then what? They'd sit on a website not being listened to either..... and there'd be the same issue. I simply don't have the time to market and distribute my own music.

I think that would be the same for 95% of us on here.

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:20 am 
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rescued

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I see your problem and in the past I was neither interested in distribution and marketing myself. That just gradually changed after I felt so passive about sending out my stuff. And I don't think you have to go clubbing every weekend or dj in order to slowly build a network, especially in the interwebs age. Of course, your first couple of releases won't chart on beatport or get you any gigs. It's not like a bomb that changes everything from one moment to the next. In my opinion it's about slowly gathering attention through consistent quality.

I don't quite believe those fairy tales where someone uploaded a track he made on one afternoon on myspace and got a deal with R&S the next day. Maybe these things happen but it's like winning the lottery. The majority puts in consistent work and I got rid of the idea that someone else will do this work for me. You just can't expect much from other people when there's nothing in for them.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:36 pm 
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rsntr wrote:
Why not just release music yourself? Sure, it costs money and effort if you want to do it properly but you're completely in control and not reliant on someone else's mercy. Also, people who own decent labels might rather become aware of you through your own releases than by sending demos. It also shows that you're confident enough in your own work if you put in your time and money.


When self-releasing (as an unknown), how do you get anyone to notice? There are literally thousands of techno tracks released every week, unless you or your label have a reputation it's extremely difficult to make anything happen.

Having amazing music probably helps, but very few make amazing music.

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:20 pm 
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I reckon that even if you made amazing music, you'd struggle to get noticed releasing your own stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:24 pm 
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rescued

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Barfunkel wrote:
When self-releasing (as an unknown), how do you get anyone to notice? There are literally thousands of techno tracks released every week, unless you or your label have a reputation it's extremely difficult to make anything happen.

Having amazing music probably helps, but very few make amazing music.



There's a middleground between no one noticing at all and getting signed to Ostgut, Trip, ... with the first demo you send out. There are a lot of small and potentially up and coming blogs, youtube channels, radio shows etc. that are on the look out for new stuff and are willing to feature unkown artists. Try to connect with them and keep up the relationship. Take one step at a time and get away from an all or nothing perspective. This won't happen over night.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:39 pm 
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If you're planning to self-release only onto digital then I'd say forget about it.. There is so much of that going on in techno that you just become a voice talking amongst another thousand people at the same time and its hard to get heard.

Self-releasing does and can work out but majority of the time, the people i see doing it that are doing well do vinyl/digital releases and are going through good marketing and distributors, which all costs £££. (And they make quality music people actually want to buy!)

Of course you're not going to get signed to someone like Ost-gut from a demo because they dont except cold demos. However, there is plenty of good small-medium sized labels out there who have a good reputation, that do accept demos. Releasing on a GOOD label gives you the benefit of their reputation and is almost like being involved in a little family hub. The network chain some labels have could take you years to build and you dont have to worry about sacking out loads of money on everything revolved around a self-release.

A lot of people have some stigma against labels these days but if your music is good enough and you manage to get on a good label, the opportunities can be great.

Self-releasing becomes easier when you start to build up a bit of an audience that are actually interested to see what your next release is going to be.

Nothing wrong with getting help from others when you are just starting up.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Well of course you have to deal with distribution and marketing if you self release, regardless if you do have a network or don't. Everyone - even the most established labels - started somewhere. I'm not talking about uploading your tracks on bandcamp and waiting for a miracle to happen. It's a lot of work and takes a lot of time. For me it's the choice between passively waiting and hoping or just doing and trying. You never know where you end up if you don't take the first step.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:53 pm 
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rsntr wrote:
Well of course you have to deal with distribution and marketing if you self release, regardless if you do have a network or don't. Everyone - even the most established labels - started somewhere. I'm not talking about uploading your tracks on bandcamp and waiting for a miracle to happen. It's a lot of work and takes a lot of time. For me it's the choice between passively waiting and hoping or just doing and trying. You never know where you end up if you don't take the first step.


It all comes down to whether you want to make the financial risk... I feel like people who are literally just getting their bearings into the world of releasing music shouldnt really go for all that risk straight away with no experience in releasing music whatsoever.

Find a good label who are passionate and serious and see if you can get sign a release with them and then gauge how well your first few releases do. Then once you start to get an idea of how things work a bit more, you can start to think about delving into the world of self-releasing. Plus, by that time you probably have tracks that you are much more confident to invest in. I know i wouldnt of wanted to invest all that money into my first release, even though i thought it was shit hot at the time. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:57 pm 
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RWise wrote:
rsntr wrote:
Well of course you have to deal with distribution and marketing if you self release, regardless if you do have a network or don't. Everyone - even the most established labels - started somewhere. I'm not talking about uploading your tracks on bandcamp and waiting for a miracle to happen. It's a lot of work and takes a lot of time. For me it's the choice between passively waiting and hoping or just doing and trying. You never know where you end up if you don't take the first step.


It all comes down to whether you want to make the financial risk... I feel like people who are literally just getting their bearings into the world of releasing music shouldnt really go for all that risk straight away with no experience in releasing music whatsoever.

Find a good label who are passionate and serious and see if you can get sign a release with them and then gauge how well your first few releases do. Then once you start to get an idea of how things work a bit more, you can start to think about delving into the world of self-releasing. Plus, by that time you probably have tracks that you are much more confident to invest in. I know i wouldnt of wanted to invest all that money into my first release, even though i thought it was shit hot at the time. :lol:


What was your first release?

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:02 pm 
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rescued

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RWise wrote:
rsntr wrote:
Well of course you have to deal with distribution and marketing if you self release, regardless if you do have a network or don't. Everyone - even the most established labels - started somewhere. I'm not talking about uploading your tracks on bandcamp and waiting for a miracle to happen. It's a lot of work and takes a lot of time. For me it's the choice between passively waiting and hoping or just doing and trying. You never know where you end up if you don't take the first step.


It all comes down to whether you want to make the financial risk... I feel like people who are literally just getting their bearings into the world of releasing music shouldnt really go for all that risk straight away with no experience in releasing music whatsoever.

Find a good label who are passionate and serious and see if you can get sign a release with them and then gauge how well your first few releases do. Then once you start to get an idea of how things work a bit more, you can start to think about delving into the world of self-releasing. Plus, by that time you probably have tracks that you are much more confident to invest in. I know i wouldnt of wanted to invest all that money into my first release, even though i thought it was shit hot at the time. :lol:



I absolutely agree with you. It just misses the point of this discussion. I was suggesting to self release to someone who feels his tracks are strong enough and who has the confirmation of others that his music is well enough but who doesn't find a label. If you find a label you're cool with that wants to release your music just go for it, obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
RWise wrote:
rsntr wrote:
Well of course you have to deal with distribution and marketing if you self release, regardless if you do have a network or don't. Everyone - even the most established labels - started somewhere. I'm not talking about uploading your tracks on bandcamp and waiting for a miracle to happen. It's a lot of work and takes a lot of time. For me it's the choice between passively waiting and hoping or just doing and trying. You never know where you end up if you don't take the first step.


It all comes down to whether you want to make the financial risk... I feel like people who are literally just getting their bearings into the world of releasing music shouldnt really go for all that risk straight away with no experience in releasing music whatsoever.

Find a good label who are passionate and serious and see if you can get sign a release with them and then gauge how well your first few releases do. Then once you start to get an idea of how things work a bit more, you can start to think about delving into the world of self-releasing. Plus, by that time you probably have tracks that you are much more confident to invest in. I know i wouldnt of wanted to invest all that money into my first release, even though i thought it was shit hot at the time. :lol:


What was your first release?


Was just a little digital 2 tracker on Anemone. Not ashamed of it by any means as it wasnt that long ago and did give me a few good gig opportunities but not something that i feel represents my production now and the music im making at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzLJEkB8Pl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixlZcdijNqE


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Ah we all have our first releases man. This one wasn't too bad.
My first ever release was a mess, ideally we keep growing as we go.

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:02 pm 
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jordanneke wrote:
Fair point.

I don't want to invest any more of my own money in distributing and marketing. I just want to make music. Which I have already invested nearly all my time in, and a substantial amount of cash.

Plus when it comes to it, the whole thing about labels and getting stuff out there is the network. If you are out there dj-ing or promoting, even if you are clubbing every weekend, you'll accrue social capital and gain access to influential networks to get your stuff heard.

I'm a married middle aged father of three with a career who lives out in the countryside, who makes music on the side. If I went further and got my tunes mastered, then what? They'd sit on a website not being listened to either..... and there'd be the same issue. I simply don't have the time to market and distribute my own music.

I think that would be the same for 95% of us on here.


That's me! And yeah, I've been thinking along similar lines lately. My music is not yet good enough to even be released, but if it was, what would I do? It's not like I can play gigs regularly or really have time/energy at the moment (kids are 2,5 and 6) to do anything more than keep writing tracks and trying to get better. But on the other hand, my 'real' job is nothing exciting and there's not much else I do other than listen to and write music once the kids are in bed, so I almost feel like I'm a failure if I don't "do something" with my tracks (because I don't have anything to show for the time and effort I've put into 'my music').

Pretty much decided that it's just for fun/a challenge, but I feel that creating artistic content (even if no one ever hears it) is better than only consuming it (for me, and each to their own if they are happy only consuming)

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:16 am 
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Why did this cunt register?

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RWise wrote:

Was just a little digital 2 tracker on Anemone. Not ashamed of it by any means as it wasnt that long ago and did give me a few good gig opportunities but not something that i feel represents my production now and the music im making at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzLJEkB8Pl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixlZcdijNqE


I liked track #1

Nowt to be embarrassed about with that one imo :-)


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:54 am 
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Kromasome wrote:
It's not like I can play gigs regularly or really have time/energy at the moment (kids are 2,5 and 6) to do anything more than keep writing tracks and trying to get better. But on the other hand, my 'real' job is nothing exciting and there's not much else I do other than listen to and write music once the kids are in bed, so I almost feel like I'm a failure if I don't "do something" with my tracks (because I don't have anything to show for the time and effort I've put into 'my music').


This is my life in a nutshell

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:28 pm 
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If anyone's interested, I sent a cold calling email to a fairly big label. Here is what I said.

Quote:
Hi x,

I'm Jordan and I'm quite hesitant to send you this, but here I am sending.

I really hope at least one of these tracks is up to x's fantastic standards. I was kind of confident when I made the decision to send you the demo, but after re-listening to your releases......

Anyway, here they are below. If they are not for you, then thanks for reading this mail.

If you do manage to listen to them and have any feedback to give me, then I'd be most welcome to that.


They listened to the tracks, AND got back to me.....



Saying 'no'. :D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:21 pm 
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slipper

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RWise wrote:


Really like that first track.

The producers on this forum give Subsekt a lot of credibility.


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 Post subject: Re: "How to send demos" by Steve O Sullivan (and me;)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:32 pm 
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refusenik
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RWise wrote:
Was just a little digital 2 tracker on Anemone. Not ashamed of it by any means as it wasnt that long ago and did give me a few good gig opportunities but not something that i feel represents my production now and the music im making at the moment.





i opened the first track and listened to it, was pretty good IMO.
this was in my YT sidebar and this is what i listened to next:


it's a pretty similar tune to yours in a way, but maybe has a few more "excitables".

i'd be pretty pleased to have made your track.


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