Making Builds and Movement while DJing, out of loopy techno

[Lost to the Void]

Oh really? Then i was wrong my whole life?
..
...
i always thought DJ's are the cool guys that make people dance and let them have a good time at a paaaarteyyyy.

yes, you were definitely wrong
maybe you should go see U2 next time they are in town instead
for only Bono has these powers

[1nfinitezer0]

nice, this thread has gotten juicy over the weekend.

the familiar base 2 multiples in techno is a trope for sure. i agree that it can kill your flow on the dancefloor when it's interrupted, but i've also had it give a huge energy boost. there's a few tracks i've got (can't recall the names, vinyl's at home) that come in a beat late after a beatless breakdown. when i first encountered stuff like this dancing, i hated it, but if it's presented in the context of fucking with you, then it can be engaging.

there was a common trick in the hard techno days back home where our residents would drop a track on the off beat for a few bars, and then cut back. it gave this awesome rattling feeling from the double time kick effect that often lost you. then when it slammed back, the kick had more punch because of the space which had returned. i also like that about glitch, industrial and some dnb how it cuts into something totally mental and un-danceable, but then comes back to the rhythm after a predictable interval.

satisfy or challenge expectations; the former can bring resolution or groove, the latter tension to be released. there's no escaping the grid, but there is playing with it. phase shifting and straight cuts to a new tempo (a la hip hop style) can throw off a dancefloor, but if it's done right it's only momentary. personally i love it when techno djs can fuck with me and still keep the vibe. [mental image of me yelling some insult then fist-pumping with a techno grin]. i've often said to people that MVO trio's vertical ascent album works so well because it's got the 4/4 kick implicit rather than constantly thumping.

it's interesting that everyone seems to be against efx in the mix. i can totally agree with the over-use of effects completely destroying things, but isn't there a lot of room to use them subtly to enhance transitions? stuff like an 8 bar phaser: when applied super wet to the whole mix it sounds cheesey and dumb, but on just a single element it could impart more movement to the mix as a whole yeah? the lines between DJing and live pa are blurring more and more. the performers that excite me most are those who have the technical ability to take songs/elements that are familiar and recontextualize them in the mix to make something unique to that moment.

[Lost to the Void]

Man, I`ve been to many a Jah Shaka gig where the guy rocks the entire place, shaking down the rafters, playing one record, on one deck. Stopping the deck, cuing up the next record, and then rocking the room again.

People aren`t totally moronic, they can handle being taken for a ride, without everything gently spoon fed to them in predictable patterns.

[Lost to the Void]

the lines between DJing and live pa are blurring more and more. the performers that excite me most are those who have the technical ability to take songs/elements that are familiar and recontextualize them in the mix to make something unique to that moment.

Now I have somewhat of a problem with this.
If you are going to play live, then play live.

Pretending to play live buy chopping up other peoples music is, to me, like a producer using shitty premade vengeance sample packs to make techno. It`s half assed.

Of course, my opinion is waaaaaaay off to the side, but I came in to this whole game as a musician first, rather than a DJ who learned to make tunes. So I`m obviously skewed.

Physically too, and mentally.

It might be because the tablets ran out some time ago.....

[Mono-xID]

Oh really? Then i was wrong my whole life?
..
...
i always thought DJ's are the cool guys that make people dance and let them have a good time at a paaaarteyyyy.

yes, you were definitely wrong
maybe you should go see U2 next time they are in town instead
for only Bono has these powers

Wow, thanks for enlighten me. I have no clue about U2 as i only listen to Punkrock (obviously you don't mean the train line) but because you're never wrong and you know whassup i'll check them out for sure. They must be great i guess.

[Lost to the Void]

Oh really? Then i was wrong my whole life?
..
...
i always thought DJ's are the cool guys that make people dance and let them have a good time at a paaaarteyyyy.

yes, you were definitely wrong
maybe you should go see U2 next time they are in town instead
for only Bono has these powers

Wow, thanks for enlighten me. I have no clue about U2 as i only listen to Punkrock (obviously you don't mean the train line) but because you're never wrong and you know whassup i'll check them out for sure. They must be great i guess.

They are almost as good as Coldplay

[1nfinitezer0]

the lines between DJing and live pa are blurring more and more. the performers that excite me most are those who have the technical ability to take songs/elements that are familiar and recontextualize them in the mix to make something unique to that moment.

Now I have somewhat of a problem with this.
If you are going to play live, then play live.

Pretending to play live buy chopping up other peoples music is, to me, like a producer using shitty premade vengeance sample packs to make techno. It`s half assed.

Of course, my opinion is waaaaaaay off to the side, but I came in to this whole game as a musician first, rather than a DJ who learned to make tunes. So I`m obviously skewed.

Physically too, and mentally.

It might be because the tablets ran out some time ago.....

haha, i respect that viewpoint. but i came from it the other way. although musical all my life, i DJed for many years before making tracks. presently i don't like my stuff enough for it to work on it's own as a liveset, so i'll mix stems and loops of my material in with other tracks. i don't let myself get billed as live, but i think there's still an art to it. i'm less interested in seeing a producer play a shitty ableton dj mix of their own material without trying to change anything from the way it was written than a dj going mental on a bunch of sample pack loops. live performance is about communicating with the audience in that moment, not just pressing play with little chance for mistakes or creativity.

[Mattias]

Easiest way to deejay is to play experimental techno full out. Anyone can do it and get away with it.
It's way harder to build up tension and progression culminating out in climaxes and go back, throw in something unexpected and repeat.

[Lost to the Void]

the lines between DJing and live pa are blurring more and more. the performers that excite me most are those who have the technical ability to take songs/elements that are familiar and recontextualize them in the mix to make something unique to that moment.

Now I have somewhat of a problem with this.
If you are going to play live, then play live.

Pretending to play live buy chopping up other peoples music is, to me, like a producer using shitty premade vengeance sample packs to make techno. It`s half assed.

Of course, my opinion is waaaaaaay off to the side, but I came in to this whole game as a musician first, rather than a DJ who learned to make tunes. So I`m obviously skewed.

Physically too, and mentally.

It might be because the tablets ran out some time ago.....

haha, i respect that viewpoint. but i came from it the other way. although musical all my life, i DJed for many years before making tracks. presently i don't like my stuff enough for it to work on it's own as a liveset, so i'll mix stems and loops of my material in with other tracks. i don't let myself get billed as live, but i think there's still an art to it. i'm less interested in seeing a producer play a shitty ableton dj mix of their own material without trying to change anything from the way it was written than a dj going mental on a bunch of sample pack loops. live performance is about communicating with the audience in that moment, not just pressing play with little chance for mistakes or creativity.

I agree, I`ve yet to see a just press play live PA yet luckily.

[Mattias]

I dont personally see modern technology making deejaying get closer to live sets, in terms of doing more things then to pitch in and change music, then yes. Otherwise no.

[Mono-xID]

Live PA !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-UmzCrBGDc

[oddmyth]

@ Oddmyth, I know you're very passionate, and analytical, but I find your philosophy to DJing quite rigid.

Hey Ash,

I hear ya mate, when you talk about something like this, of course it's going to seem rigid. You have to remember though I've been at this for 20 years. 20 fucking years!! The reason I started mixing for public consumption again this year was because I felt I had something to say in a generation of digital mixing that in my opinion has really missed the mark in a lot of ways and there's still so much for ME to learn - again 20 years in, I'm still learning.

What you read here is just an amalgamation of thoughts that I have "right now". That doesn't mean that future oddmyth is going to think exactly the same way. In fact there's a very likely change that future me is going to think very differently. HOWEVER a large amount of what I expounded previously in this thread is just basic DJ 101 stuff. It's the makings of someone who understands DJ'ing at a technical level, which is what this thread was about. I'm not saying it's not possible to do it any other way, and I'm certainly not saying I haven't done it any other way, because I have and will. What I will say is that in order to surprise people you have to give them expectations - this is how things go - without that you can't surprise them.

[Wiu]

It always amuses me how elitist DJ's can be. Lets be honest here. It ain't fucking difficult. Vinyl, CDJs or Software - it's all bollox. Just play the fucking music and rest in the knowledge that if you're playing in a club, there's a good chance that you're earning more than the Producers of the tracks you're playing. If not, then just play some music and have fun. If you fuck a mix up and claim it's what you meant to do, fair play. If you want to purposely balls up a mix just to be different, fair play too! Fact is, put a curtain in front a DJ booth and switch a big name DJ to anybody that has DJ'd a bit, and most people wouldn't tell the difference.

[Lost to the Void]

Live PA !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-UmzCrBGDc

Ok, now you get it.
Awesome.
Even better than Coldplay.
You should check out a band called the lighthouse family, they are pretty much the gold leaf on top of the cherry on top of the cake. Absolute class.

[Planar]

It always amuses me how elitist DJ's can be. Lets be honest here. It ain't fucking difficult. Vinyl, CDJs or Software - it's all bollox. Just play the fucking music and rest in the knowledge that if you're playing in a club, there's a good chance that you're earning more than the Producers of the tracks you're playing. If not, then just play some music and have fun. If you fuck a mix up and claim it's what you meant to do, fair play. If you want to purposely balls up a mix just to be different, fair play too! Fact is, put a curtain in front a DJ booth and switch a big name DJ to anybody that has DJ'd a bit, and most people wouldn't tell the difference.

You're right. Make people dance, that's your job, nothing else. If you can educate and broaden some horizons along the way, even better, if you lose the floor and can't get it back you fucked up. No-one actually cares that much about that bit of time between the tracks where you try to merge them.

[Mattias]

It always amuses me how elitist DJ's can be. Lets be honest here. It ain't fucking difficult. Vinyl, CDJs or Software - it's all bollox. Just play the fucking music and rest in the knowledge that if you're playing in a club, there's a good chance that you're earning more than the Producers of the tracks you're playing. If not, then just play some music and have fun. If you fuck a mix up and claim it's what you meant to do, fair play. If you want to purposely balls up a mix just to be different, fair play too! Fact is, put a curtain in front a DJ booth and switch a big name DJ to anybody that has DJ'd a bit, and most people wouldn't tell the difference.

It really depends man but mostly you are right. It's not difficult. The "thing" is more about how you personally create mood, vibe and present it to the people.
What's "difficult" is to play "well". Any asshole can go up there and mess with a CD and or some turntables and make it work. Not so many can make the dance-floor explode to pieces and give people that mind-blowing experience. That's the difference in my opinion and today, more then anytime, it's easier to tell when a DJ or performer is good since every fucker is a DJ these days!

[Mattias]

It always amuses me how elitist DJ's can be. Lets be honest here. It ain't fucking difficult. Vinyl, CDJs or Software - it's all bollox. Just play the fucking music and rest in the knowledge that if you're playing in a club, there's a good chance that you're earning more than the Producers of the tracks you're playing. If not, then just play some music and have fun. If you fuck a mix up and claim it's what you meant to do, fair play. If you want to purposely balls up a mix just to be different, fair play too! Fact is, put a curtain in front a DJ booth and switch a big name DJ to anybody that has DJ'd a bit, and most people wouldn't tell the difference.

You're right. Make people dance, that's your job, nothing else. If you can educate and broaden some horizons along the way, even better, if you lose the floor and can't get it back you fucked up. No-one actually cares that much about that bit of time between the tracks where you try to merge them.

Yeah that's it. When no one notices anything special, then it's how it should be. DJ work should be transparent. They notice fuck ups.

[1nfinitezer0]

It always amuses me how elitist DJ's can be. Lets be honest here. It ain't fucking difficult. Vinyl, CDJs or Software - it's all bollox. Just play the fucking music and rest in the knowledge that if you're playing in a club, there's a good chance that you're earning more than the Producers of the tracks you're playing. If not, then just play some music and have fun. If you fuck a mix up and claim it's what you meant to do, fair play. If you want to purposely balls up a mix just to be different, fair play too! Fact is, put a curtain in front a DJ booth and switch a big name DJ to anybody that has DJ'd a bit, and most people wouldn't tell the difference.

It really depends man but mostly you are right. It's not difficult. The "thing" is more about how you personally create mood, vibe and present it to the people.
What's "difficult" is to play "well". Any asshole can go up there and mess with a CD and or some turntables and make it work. Not so many can make the dance-floor explode to pieces and give people that mind-blowing experience. That's the difference in my opinion and today, more then anytime, it's easier to tell when a DJ or performer is good since every fucker is a DJ these days!

youtu.be/DErDoRX8o58

[oddmyth]

It really depends man but mostly you are right. It's not difficult. The "thing" is more about how you personally create mood, vibe and present it to the people.
What's "difficult" is to play "well". Any asshole can go up there and mess with a CD and or some turntables and make it work. Not so many can make the dance-floor explode to pieces and give people that mind-blowing experience. That's the difference in my opinion and today, more then anytime, it's easier to tell when a DJ or performer is good since every fucker is a DJ these days!

I've been accompanying my brother-in-law lately to help him with setup and strike for his soundsystem. He pulls gigs from a very high end DJ pool that books high end parties and weddings. I mainly help with weddings, doing a few this summer. DJ'ing a high end wedding is probably the most stressful thing you can do solo and you have to have a gigantic library of music to do these things proper.

Most of all witnessing these events really gives you perspective on DJ'ing. Wedding DJ'ing is the most selfless DJ'ing there is, you are basically a request machine that has to keep a dancefloor happy. For example, you have a dancefloor full of 20 somethings going crazy to the latest top 20 pop tunes and then you have an older gentlemen request Chris Isaac "Lady in Red". How do you deal with that? Do you actually play it? That song is like 75 BPM, how do you take a dancefloor buggin out to Justin Timberlake at 120BPM to that? Or how about a bridesmaid requesting Wilson Phillips "Hold On". It's one thing to turn down a request from just a guy attending the wedding, but another to turn down a member of the wedding party who's probably doing this so she can sing along with the bride.

It's a whole other world of DJ'ing where your job is to satisfy each and every person in the room - it's a bloody impossible task but you have to make the best of it. My brother-in-law is bloody at it, and then the next night he's playing house at a private party for Daniel Radcliffe and again everybodies having it, but this time to music he enjoys. That's real DJ'ing, techno isn't like that at all, but to play at a high level, the philosophy is very much the same.

[ashley BORG]

@ Oddmyth, I know you're very passionate, and analytical, but I find your philosophy to DJing quite rigid.

Hey Ash,

I hear ya mate, when you talk about something like this, of course it's going to seem rigid. You have to remember though I've been at this for 20 years. 20 fucking years!! The reason I started mixing for public consumption again this year was because I felt I had something to say in a generation of digital mixing that in my opinion has really missed the mark in a lot of ways and there's still so much for ME to learn - again 20 years in, I'm still learning.

What you read here is just an amalgamation of thoughts that I have "right now". That doesn't mean that future oddmyth is going to think exactly the same way. In fact there's a very likely change that future me is going to think very differently. HOWEVER a large amount of what I expounded previously in this thread is just basic DJ 101 stuff. It's the makings of someone who understands DJ'ing at a technical level, which is what this thread was about. I'm not saying it's not possible to do it any other way, and I'm certainly not saying I haven't done it any other way, because I have and will. What I will say is that in order to surprise people you have to give them expectations - this is how things go - without that you can't surprise them.

Fair play.

You know I was thinking of your essay on the warm up DJ earlier, and thought of the latest great warm up set I saw, which was from Samuel Kerridge at the London-Blueprint night in August warming up for Hood, Mills & UR.
It was the most different and ear catching warm up set I'd ever heard, and almost a completely different approach.
Mainly it consisted of Drone & ambience, large sections were beatless, and very dark. But it was amazing! Pretty much 3 hours of this (I only caught the last 2)

He ramped it up proper for the last 20 mins. The crowd was in a frenzy by the time Hood stepped up.

I spoke to Kerridge after who said he didn't really know another way to approach a set (warm up or otherwise), but he was quite moved when I said it was one of the best warm ups ever IMO.
I'd never of considered this approach before that night. I suppose it just goes to show although there are rules (some well established through logic), it's capable to rewrite these at any moment.