Back to the drawing board.............

[jordanneke]

I used to think that it was because the pro's also have better gear than me, but I'd really like to hear the results of Speedy J from my basic home studio.
In other words I'm pretty sure there's a weak link in there somewhere, is it me, or the equipment...?
I'd dread to think of the garbage that I'd rustle up in Speedy's studio

I ride a little too, I'm not great at that either, my bike is semi-decent, but I'm sure that old Bradley Wiggins would do fairly well on my bike, I'm guessing that he'd probably do a bit better than me on his.

And that's the sucky part. Getting better at both, but still sucking badly.

[ashley BORG]

Like Steve alluded to the "technically perfect" tracks aren't the ones still being caned after 5 or 10 years. Think about your favourite classics, most sound sketchy but free and weird.

Most of them were mixed and mastered by some amazing heads with amazing gear, too. I've heard some unmastered tracks by some decent sized names and they're a shock to hear sometimes. There are people out there and certain analogue gear that can make a decent sounding mix sound like the fattest thing you've ever heard.

If you get hung up on engineering you'll eventually become an engineer not a composer, something we don't need any more of.

Lot of sense in this comment. I personally miss some the imperfections of first generation dance music.

I suppose the main problem upcoming novices have in this age, is that the really good stuff sounds so polished, it makes ours look like a steaming pile of poo.

Maybe the differences between polished and unpolished weren't so great back then? That way it was easier for creativity to shine through.

[Mattias]

No need to compare yourself to a way more experienced producer and think you suck. Compare and think about what to improve instead. Only way to move forward is to sit and struggle, keep on struggling and gain experience and struggle some more.

EDIT: much of what I heard from the Member Track section just needs a push in the right direction, some motivation from others and more experience. Much tracks are decent and solid in the Member Section.

[Lost to the Void]

Does anyone actually have a drawing board?

[ashley BORG]

Does anyone actually have a drawing board?

I have a sketch pad....

[Mattias]

Does anyone actually have a drawing board?

I do, with blueprint paper and all actually haha. I dont use it ofcourse

[Patriek]

No need to compare yourself to a way more experienced producer and think you suck. Compare and think about what to improve instead. Only way to move forward is to sit and struggle, keep on struggling and gain experience and struggle some more.

EDIT: much of what I heard from the Member Track section just needs a push in the right direction, some motivation from others and more experience. Much tracks are decent and solid in the Member Section.

^This...

I enjoy a lot of the tracks in the member section. Specially the ones made with commitment and passion. Not saying i love my own music, but i learned to be a bit more objective about it instead of cutting my wrists after a shitty sounding loop.

Maybe we can start a support group for this!?

[ross-alexander]

nobody really gains anything from self loathing, you don't have to be this way to constructively critiscise your work. set yourself targets, make them realistic, read, enjoy learning and have fun you bloody emos

[Críoch]

Does anyone actually have a drawing board?

I do, with blueprint paper and all actually haha. I dont use it ofcourse

haha - I used to love on all the old cartoons the way they'd roll out the blueprints / schematics when a cunning plan was required.

wile-e-coyote-schematic.jpg (17.44 KiB) Viewed 999 times

[Lost to the Void]

I absolutely love Wile E Coyote. I think he is my biggest childhood hero.

[Patriek]

One of the best cartoon figures for me too!

[Hades]

I think I've mentioned before here how Wile E Coyote got "invented", right ?
from wiki :

Jones credits his artistic bent to circumstances surrounding his father, who was an unsuccessful businessman in California in the 1920s. His father, Jones recounts, would start every new business venture by purchasing new stationery and new pencils with the company name on them. When the business failed, his father would quietly turn the huge stacks of useless stationery and pencils over to his children, requiring them to use up all the material as fast as possible. Armed with an endless supply of high-quality paper and pencils, the children drew constantly. Later, in one art school class, the professor gravely informed the students that they each had 100,000 bad drawings in them that they must first get past before they could possibly draw anything worthwhile. Jones recounted years later that this pronouncement came as a great relief to him, as he was well past the 200,000 mark, having used up all that stationery.

I always think about that when I feel my stuff is absolute crap.

I read another good quote as well recently :
translated it would be something like :

Amateurs wait for inspiration to strike. Pro's just get up and go to work.

And a German saying I like :
"Auch ein blindes Huhn findet mal ein Korn"
(could be spelled terrible though, I can't write German, I can only speak/understand it after living with one for about 14 years now)
It means : "even a blind chicken sometimes finds a grain of corn"
I'm definitely a blind chicken !


No matter how bad the result is, I just keep on putting hours in.
Maybe I'll get somewhere decent some day, maybe not.
But I'll still have done something way more fun than being a couch potato in front of the tele each evening.

[Hades]

sometimes I also wonder how much of this "pressure" to create something good, or get a release out there, comes from what everyone else expects in our society.
I mean, if people that don't know me very well get to my house and see the studio, they always go and ask the same kind of questions. Mostly it's "what do you want to achieve/accomplish with that ?"
Why do I need to achieve/accomplish anything to be allowed to have a nice studio ?
If I wouldn't be using all that gear, then I'd absolutely agree it's a real shame,
but since I do, why would I only be allowed to have it if my goal was to have releases out there ?
(easier than ever though nowadays in our digital era, and let's face it, there are already so many crap tracks floating around, why bother releasing anything if it's not of a certain minimum quality)
whatever happened to plain old fun ?
And just creating for the sake of wanting to do something creative !
Whether or not someone else would like it or not can be considered an extra, but not a necessity, right ?

man, I sometimes feel nostalgic to the days where I only played the piano.
Nobody bothered then to ask me what my goal was with playing the piano.

[Críoch]

Interesting about Jones Hades. That is true in regards to having to put in the hours. Great example. Going to remember that.

Love the chicken quote too. That's another one I must remember haha

[ARiFF]

Well interesting thread this is. Comparing to reference tracks, i suppose it's something we all do or done in the past. I'm guilty of it myself a lot, but one thing i learned from being here on Subsekt is that it's absolutely useless to "compare" yourself to someone who's been doing this way much longer than you, on waaay more expensive gear and with a professional studio behind it. I have heard tracks from Jordanneke for example which i thought : "wow, i wish i could make something like that". But instead of comparing what i do, it's much more beneficial to actually "listen" to a track, hear how it's made, how did the arrangement go, and so on... If i can make myself do that, instead of comparing, i actually learn something. I bet 90% of the people on Subsekt which had a track featured on the Subsekt mixtape, thought by themself : "oh noes, my track sounds the most amateuristic of them all". I know for sure i did, but than again i'm probably the most insecure unstable "producer" around here. In fact, if i ever meet someone from my favorite artists and they would tell me : hey actually that's a good track, i still wouldn't believe it. If i think about it, it's what makes me try harder though, makes me eager to learn new things. The day i get up and think : ha, this is my track and it sounds like a megaton techno nuke on speed, is the day i probably quit doing what i love most. Enjoy making music...

[Lost to the Void]

Well.....

The climb to perfection is endless. The mountain has no summit.
It's all about the journey.

By best tutor at university (fine art class) said to me
"No painting is ever finished, it simply stops in interesting places"

Now I don't rate myself as some great producer or musician, I know I am competent at least.
Pretty much everything I make, in hindsight, generally a week or so after finishing it, or just after I release it, I realise that it sucks. The production has flaws, or the groove doesn't quite work, or it isn't accessable enough, or it is too obvious or whatever.
Sometimes I beat myself up over it .
It's just part of being an artist and being on that quest for perfection.
It pushes you forwards, and sure sometimes it can be futile, but you just need to realise when the muse has left you, and go and do something else.
In techno especially it is such easy music to make, you can mash any old crap together with a kick drum, and call it techno, if you produce it right. And it is partly why there is so much generic stuff out there, people are following type rather than finding themselves.

First and foremost you should get pleasure from what you are doing. No other concerns except your own should be at the forefront.
If you make music for other people you begin a dangerous dance with expectation and second guessing what people want. Eventually it will lead you down the path of manufacturing over artistry.
This is a gift, music is separate from consumer production. There is no quota to fill, it shouldn't be like a job where you do it to demand.

If the music you make gives you pleasure then you have achieved something. Every mistake is a lesson, every flaw that you recognise is a challenge to overcome.
It WILL take time, the is NO shortcut, but with the right mindset all of the journey can be incredibly fulfilling.

Music is my friend, my companion, my therapist, my love, we fight and we argue, and make love and fall out, and play. I'm never lonely, and through everything music has always been there for me.
When I am making music, the studio disappears, I enter another world, just me and the music, and time passes without me noticing.
It is precisely for this reason i have done it all my life. And I love it too much to cheapen it in any way, I can't see myself ever stopping, regardless of sales, trends, or whatever.

If you feel you need to achieve something due to pressure from society. Fuck em. A studio is no more or less valid than spending a shit load of money on a fast car, or stupid expensive brand name clothes or something.
At least with a studio you can create. Fulfilment comes from within, and not externally. It is a far more wholesome meal for the soul.
Material things are like junk food. You will always need more as there is little nutrition.
It is also easy to get into the studio consumer trap. Forever looking for more gear because you think that next bit of kit will be the kit that gets you there. I have a friend who is constantly buying shit, always making excuses for not making music, "oh I need this, I need that". Better monitors, better chair, more gear, more traps, more synths. And all the time no music is getting made.

No mate, what you need to do is make music, the more you do it, the more you flex those musical muscles, the better you will get with what you have.
Once you reach the limits of your tools,mother things get interesting.

If you keep buying new gear you will never have mastery over what you have already. You have simply fallen into another type of consumerism.
I don't have this problem really, making music is my concern, the gear is just there to facilitate it, the ideas are what is important.
Great music can be made with nothing but an akai mpc

The act of creation, of playing god in your own little creative universe, is extremely important for the soul. Don't get too stressed about it, with hard work and passion you will see results.

Now, there is also the other side of it.
Some people just don't have "the spark".
I've taught a lot of people, and some people i have taught, despite gang good production skills, don't have that "thing" to make music that sounds "real".
As much as the want it, the musical muse just does not come to them.
It doesn't mean creative artistry is not right for them, it simply means that music as a form of creative artistry is not for them.
It is a hard thing to deal with if the passion overrides the artistic ability.

It doesn't mean that making music for this person can be any less enjoyable though.

If you can see that you need to improve, then it means you have the capacity to improve.

In mastering sometimes I get sent stuff that I have to return to be re-mixed down, and most of the time people take the advice, make the tweaks, and we move on. To a wonderful finished piece.
Sometimes you get that person who either is too arrogant, or simply can't see/hear the problems. And in these cases I end up thnkng "oh dear, you are never going to get any better".
Don't be that person

Anyway, don't be too hard on yourself, remember that you can learn from all your results, good and bad, enjoy it, put some of yourself in to it, and it will be a constant companion.
The music is more important that the production.

I say this here as much for myself as any of you.

[Lost to the Void]

Fuuuuck.
That's what a fresh pot of tea will do.

[ARiFF]

im gonna print that and hang above my bed Steve Voidloss, its a perfect explanation of what it is that thrives me and a lot of others.

[Twilitez]

Fuuuuck.
That's what a fresh pot of tea will do.

What kind of tea was that then?
Jokes aside, excellent post

[jordanneke]

I have heard tracks from Jordanneke for example which i thought : "wow, i wish i could make something like that".

That's a bit of a confidence boost, but tbh there are about 200 tracks and loops of mine that i'm sure you're happy not to have made. A lot of them suck ass, terribly

The music I make is not complicated and a lot of it happens through experimenting (fucking about), but if I make something that I think is ok, it mostly seems to be accidental, not a direct translation of what is in my head, or it's copying/ tweaking a technique that I found online, which I see as a lot less satisfying.

I really appreciate the people on this forum taking time to be constructive.


ps Great post from Voidloss.