Master/Slave - Ableton changes terminology

[kertikristof]

Came across this one in one of the Ableton live facebook groups. Over there the OP put his feelings into shitty words ("Oh Ableton, what a bunch of pathetic twats you are...").

I don't want to get into meaningless fights on facebook, but would like to start a topic on this with you. I am curious what you think about this change in naming.

I heard that this month is black history month. I get that Master/Slave may be inappropriate to some and generally if you are educated, you should be on a level of empathy to accept such a change. On the other hand in IT and other fields of technology Master/Slave is a common terminology and until a twitter rant about changing Master / Slave bus naming on motherboards I never imagined a historical background to this naming in the context of technology.. But the world is changing, some words mean different things nowadays. Still, shall we draw a line where to separate history/politics from science/tech or this is just too romantic?

So, at the moment I don't know what to say, I find this topic generally interesting. Ableton is a business, their customers care about the change for the better. If this is that change, I am happy for it.

[borg]

it takes away the sex a bit, doesn't it? The world is losing a bit of its kinkiness.

[Mslwte]

I have no problem with my wife calling me a "Device" from now on.

[Críoch]

*MEGAFACEPALM*

Leader / Follower could be offensive to people who used to be in cults or dictatorships.

I dunno.. like, sometimes.. is it all necessary? Can words just 'be' ? Sometimes they just become something unrelated, morph into a different meaning. They definitely can.

I think someone has too much time on their hands..

Will male / female connections be targeted next?

Im not PC, but I am sympathetic to other peoples feelings, so if it makes others feel bad - ok - change it. Make it better. I can see the point.. but still though.. its a little OTT.

[Planar]

it takes away the sex a bit, doesn't it? The world is losing a bit of its kinkiness.

Just call them dom and sub. Done.

I’m with Crioch here. I understand it, yet I don’t at the same time. This means a lot to some people, so the change is justified.

[borg]

it takes away the sex a bit, doesn't it? The world is losing a bit of its kinkiness.

Just call them dom and sub. Done.

Aaaah! There's always a solution, and many times it's right in front of you

I’m with Crioch here. I understand it, yet I don’t at the same time. This means a lot to some people, so the change is justified.

Well, in all seriousness, I'm on of those western world white males in his 40s, so statistically on top of the world, all criteria met. I think a good part of the usual crowd here are in the same position, and most, if not all, have their moral compass pointing in the right direction. But yeah, sometimes it is not that easy to understand, like this specific use of the words 'master' and 'slave'. My first reaction was 'Jeezas, what's next?' But as Walter used to say 'you have no frame of reference'...
Negro... To me it is just a Latin word for black, but is regarded as not appropriate. I still find it odd, a black person might think otherwise.
For me, intention is key.

A story that was on national radio a while back: The Ghent football club is nick-named Buffalo's. Whatever, you would say, until it came to the attention of a Native American woman. https://www.kaagent.be/en/our-club/logo should you be interested.

Context!!! As always...


youtu.be/6Vl1m5FYlAo

[Lost to the Void]

It's ridiculous to me. It's trying to pretend things didn't happen.

Do we change the wordage for kill switches on things because people have been killed?

Obviously equality yes yes yes. But we can't wrap the world in cotton wool


Gender neutral audio cables?

Kick drums must only be called bass drums from now on because oppressed people were sometimes kicked by their masters?

[Críoch]

Thank fuck Geese don't know about goose necks.. things could get vicious!

When are they going to change the name of Phantom power? I saw a scary ghost once.

[Root]

I guess an important point is that it's not only about what happened, but what's still happening. People get killed on a daily basis because of racism. Ableton won't stop this for sure. But if it helps showing solidarity and lessen everyday racism and peoples trauma, so what.. Don't know if it should be a big thing, i don't care how it's called, as long as it's doing it's job. And racism isn't really comparable to male/ female relationships or something else.

[Críoch]

Thats true too.

[Lost to the Void]

Tackling racism really isn`t done by fiddling with semantics and banning language, a racist cunt can still be a racist cunt and call you mate, brother, friend or person of colour or whatever.
It`s the velvet glove on the iron fist. Tackling racism is about dealing with empathy and a state of mind, but that takes real investment. Much easier to fuck with some words, pat yourself on the back and say "hey look, we got this shit managed bruh".

[chava]

Argh. I am sure this will help stopping the still existing slave markets operating today.

You don't cure trauma by erasing that what triggers it.

[Prophän]

Completely unnecessary ,over the top and ridiculous IMO, they should spend their time/energy on more important/useful stuff

[Kromasome]

I fully agree with Borg that intention is key.

And I must admit, that due to my sheltered life, I hadn't even considered that this was the main reason behind the name change when I read through the list of updates - I just thought they changed the terminology to make things easier for some people to understand how the software worked.

However, I feel the new terminology (leader/follower or whatever it is)makes things more confusing (in terms of what is what in the software - but then I am used to and have always used the terms "master/slave" - in a musical context).

[winston]

generally if you are educated, you should be on a level of empathy to accept such a change

the way you worded this is interesting.

[chava]

generally if you are educated, you should be on a level of empathy to accept such a change

the way you worded this is interesting.

As if better educated means more empathic. ehh, that's a no.

[kertikristof]

generally if you are educated, you should be on a level of empathy to accept such a change

the way you worded this is interesting.

As if better educated means more empathic. ehh, that's a no.

The English language is a barrier to me at this point, hard to translate my feelings and thoughts in this topic.

I meant the following: If you are educated, then you probably heard about oppression and can shed some light on this subject, and can understand why this matters to some.

For example I understand that this is a problem to some. I understand it, because I heard / learnt about it -> I am empathic because there are people who feel shit about master slave terminology. Like some of my Jewish friends don't like jokes on lagers, some of my German friends don't like Hitler jokes. Similar stuff, other times.

Also I feel like it's just shutting the window while you hear the neighbor beating his wife shouting.

[jacksonick]

I’m with planar. Just call it top and bottom.

[Críoch]

Aye ok.. I totally see the lager/camp Jewish/Slave thing here. It's not just some token Colonial hangover cure by snowflakes. There are several dimensions to consider.

Leader / Follower is probably the best, most neutral choice.

[winston]

The English language is a barrier to me at this point, hard to translate my feelings and thoughts in this topic.

I meant the following: If you are educated, then you probably heard about oppression and can shed some light on this subject, and can understand why this matters to some.

oh ok, i didn't realise you were using a second language, i can see how what you said could be taken different ways. i took it as being educated means you know why the words are 'wrong' and should be changed and if you aren't educated then that explains why you'd be against it, so everyone against the idea is only against it because they are in some way ignorant. i'd put that down the use of "should[....accept]" like it would be an automatic agreement with something just because some people are irked by it.

i have empathy for people who were actual slaves and their stories, their plight, even though that empathy is worth nothing. but i don't have empathy for their grandchildren's grandchildren. there's a cutoff point for claiming to be a victim.

both the rewire and the tempo term changes make sense as you read the new terms. i just don't agree that we should have to change our behaviour to suit a small group of complainers. but whatever.