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 Post subject: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Sorry if this chat is off limits, no harm intended - remove if needed.

Watched one of these bbc drug documentaries last night...... What are your opinions on techno + chemical substances such as speed mdma or whatever?

I have met lots of people that indulge, but I have met some that are still kinda shocked and disgusted at people gurning in banging clubs. And whilst I love a loud club playing repetitive music, I don't think I could dance all the way till the closing times of some of these clubs without chemical assistance. As someone that enjoys a wide variety of techno sober, it just goes to another level for me when the right sweet spot dosage of the right substance is done at a club with half decent sound.

Whats the subsekt-ers view on this?

How much of an impact are drugs on techno and do you enjoy, not care, or are disgusted in it - and please spout any other shit you care to mention about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:05 pm 
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As if people would be up all night dancing without mind altering substances.

I chose those words wisely, as alcohol is also included.

People like getting fucked up and dancing. Techno aids that.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:10 pm 
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I also find people who are happy to drink, but are disgusted by other drugs completely hypocritical.

Booze, caffeine, mdma, coke, whatever... people take it because it gives pleasure.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Ps, this was all discussed a while ago here

http://subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5794&hilit=how+much+does+techno+owe+to+e

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:37 pm 
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very intersting read threre, will post when i have more time

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:20 pm 
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jordanneke wrote:
I also find people who are happy to drink, but are disgusted by other drugs completely hypocritical.

Booze, caffeine, mdma, coke, whatever... people take it because it gives pleasure.


it is a bit extreme to say it is hypocritical. booze is legal, and it can cause great harm to people i totally accept that. drugs are illegal and the illegal market and all the things involved in that are very harmful to those involved and the innocent alike. nobody was (likely) harmed or had their life ruined in providing beer to a pub. there is a lot of misery involved in the creation, movement and supply of illegal drugs


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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:41 pm 
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winston wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
I also find people who are happy to drink, but are disgusted by other drugs completely hypocritical.

Booze, caffeine, mdma, coke, whatever... people take it because it gives pleasure.


it is a bit extreme to say it is hypocritical. booze is legal, and it can cause great harm to people i totally accept that. drugs are illegal and the illegal market and all the things involved in that are very harmful to those involved and the innocent alike. nobody was (likely) harmed or had their life ruined in providing beer to a pub. there is a lot of misery involved in the creation, movement and supply of illegal drugs


That's a circular argument.

They only cause misery due to the 'relatively recent' hard-on for prohibition.

Lots of people were harmed and lives ruined providing beers to pubs in 30's America. From the creation of the mafia, to the deaths from adulterated booze, through to the violence at every stage of the supply chain and the increased amount of kidnapping.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:37 am 
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winston wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
I also find people who are happy to drink, but are disgusted by other drugs completely hypocritical.

Booze, caffeine, mdma, coke, whatever... people take it because it gives pleasure.


it is a bit extreme to say it is hypocritical. booze is legal, and it can cause great harm to people i totally accept that. drugs are illegal and the illegal market and all the things involved in that are very harmful to those involved and the innocent alike. nobody was (likely) harmed or had their life ruined in providing beer to a pub. there is a lot of misery involved in the creation, movement and supply of illegal drugs


And this is the fuking governments fault. The 'war on drugs' has been an utter failure but our government is too fucking childish to sit down and have an adult conversation on the matter. (UK gov' that is.)

Ties in to how in the UK if someone dies from a drug overdose in a club these days, the clubs licensed gets revoked. Only clubs are given this extra responsibility compared to any other licensed premises.

The way to go about the drug industry is to educate and regulate. This will not only save lives but get rid of the black market which is the source of the problems. Bad people that only care about profit and not the health of whom theyre selling their merch to. Look at places like holland and switzerland where you dont get instantly criminalised for being in possession of ecstasy. Instead they have open drug testing houses for people to go and test the purity of the drug theyre taking. Which is the best way to go about keeping people safe. But in the UK its not about safety. the Gov dont give a fuck about that. Its all about money and property here. Clubs are just a nuisance that they want to get rid of.

Rant over... this is just a topic that frustrates me considering the backwards policies that are still in-place when its nearly 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:28 am 
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jordanneke wrote:
I also find people who are happy to drink, but are disgusted by other drugs completely hypocritical.

Booze, caffeine, mdma, coke, whatever... people take it because it gives pleasure.


Alcohol is one of the most dangerous mood/body-altering substances, both in terms of what it does to your body and how it can put you (and others) in harm's way.


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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:55 am 
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MDMA started a revolution, changed society even, and thank god for that. Most other class A's are shit. Every musical epoch has its drug, techno/rave/house is the definition of drug music, and ecstasy was its fuel.


If you have the type of personality that is prone to addiction and abuse is another issue entirely, and not limited to "illegal" substances. Some people should never drink or take anything period.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:12 am 
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My personal club philosophy is that you leave society and it's regulations at the door (ethical rules still apply: your freedom ends where another individuals freedom begins).
Clubbing is freedom, that includes the freedom to get hammered and take mind altering substance, dance like a paraletic, talk a log of shit and listening to music that sounds like an airplane taking off.
Giving people a space to act like this (including the consumption of drugs) is what makes the club scene. People should enjoy themselves, if that includes using drugs that is fine by me.

There are individuals that can not handle their substances, get aggresive, take it for 5 days straight and can't cope anymore with basic human interaction these are of course the other site of the medal.


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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:49 am 
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I've never seen any studies about what kind of drugs (alcohol included) people use, how much and what music they like to listen to and do these correlate in some way. It'd be super interesting to read such a thing actually and see how well the stereotypes match the reality. Very difficult to make such a survey though, for obvious reasons (ie. if I start asking random people on the street what drugs they use getting realistic results is close to impossible, as people have very good reasons to lie or downplay their use).


Based on my own experiences I haven't found much correlation between substance abuse amounts and music taste. If anything, people who use tons of heavy drugs or are proper alcoholics don't tend to be clubbers (come to think of it, every single problem user or a drug related death are rock or pop people...). There's of course some correlation on which drugs are used and how are they used. Clubbers do it pretty openly in the public, which is why they have a bad rep. People in to reggae, for example, of course use more weed than speed or e, but since weed use in a public gig gets you very easily caught, you don't see reggae clubs where everyone is smoking a joint.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:33 am 
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Unless you're banging up speedballs all night you are doing it wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:46 am 
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Barfunkel wrote:
I've never seen any studies about what kind of drugs (alcohol included) people use, how much and what music they like to listen to and do these correlate in some way. It'd be super interesting to read such a thing actually and see how well the stereotypes match the reality. Very difficult to make such a survey though, for obvious reasons (ie. if I start asking random people on the street what drugs they use getting realistic results is close to impossible, as people have very good reasons to lie or downplay their use).


Based on my own experiences I haven't found much correlation between substance abuse amounts and music taste. If anything, people who use tons of heavy drugs or are proper alcoholics don't tend to be clubbers (come to think of it, every single problem user or a drug related death are rock or pop people...). There's of course some correlation on which drugs are used and how are they used. Clubbers do it pretty openly in the public, which is why they have a bad rep. People in to reggae, for example, of course use more weed than speed or e, but since weed use in a public gig gets you very easily caught, you don't see reggae clubs where everyone is smoking a joint.


People who drink chocotinis like Drumcode.


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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:01 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Unless you're banging up speedballs all night you are doing it wrong.



I have a strict speedball curfew. I generally stop just after 9pm, if not, I'm next to useless the next day.

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Barfunkel wrote:
I've never seen any studies about what kind of drugs (alcohol included) people use, how much and what music they like to listen to and do these correlate in some way. It'd be super interesting to read such a thing actually and see how well the stereotypes match the reality. Very difficult to make such a survey though, for obvious reasons (ie. if I start asking random people on the street what drugs they use getting realistic results is close to impossible, as people have very good reasons to lie or downplay their use).


Based on my own experiences I haven't found much correlation between substance abuse amounts and music taste. If anything, people who use tons of heavy drugs or are proper alcoholics don't tend to be clubbers (come to think of it, every single problem user or a drug related death are rock or pop people...). There's of course some correlation on which drugs are used and how are they used. Clubbers do it pretty openly in the public, which is why they have a bad rep. People in to reggae, for example, of course use more weed than speed or e, but since weed use in a public gig gets you very easily caught, you don't see reggae clubs where everyone is smoking a joint.



There are quite a few surveys done on this - if I have time in the near future, I will try and find some.

But your experiences mimic my observations quite well. I do think there's a much more liberal stance on mind-altering (and illegal) substances in the club scene compared to others. But with that said the culture of being under the influence is drastically different from say the punk scene. Where other scenes really celebrate the "death drive" and make people like GG Allin a sort of Martyr, I don't see the clubbers celebrate the danger aspect of all substances. Instead, it's the mind-altering state, which is celebrated. And here alcohol provides a bit of a problem... it tires you if you become too drunk. I don't do drugs (I have a pretty huge fear about taking something I'm not sure what is), but when I go clubbing I also try not to get super drunk (compared to me sitting in a bodega with a friend) because then I can't last all night.

So if we discussed this in regards of a culture of intoxication, I would say that the club culture is less extreme than most other cultures (especially here in Denmark, where we love to celebrate to blackout drunk)

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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Id much rather have a night sober or twisted on MDMA than on alcohol at a techno night.

Being drunk does nothing for me and music. Just makes me tired and not want to dance. Id rather go sober.

MDMA is a different story... But i only do it a few times a year so the experience is always special when i do go into that reality of non-stop dancing.


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 Post subject: Re: Techno and "substances"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:32 pm 
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jordanneke wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
Unless you're banging up speedballs all night you are doing it wrong.



I have a strict speedball curfew. I generally stop just after 9pm, if not, I'm next to useless the next day.


Ah well, 9pm is the watershed, that`s when you switch to Krokodil.

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