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 Post subject: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Hello,

Was watching this tutorial from Conor Dalton wich is probably one of the greatest audio engineer in techno music for me. I am really fan of his work.



He says that he like to put limiter on kick drums, bassdrums, one shots, etc ... And the limiter has to affect the sound by -1 dB.

My english is not perfect it will be much easier for you to understand if you watch the video.

What do you think about the technique he describe here ?

Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: Anny advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:07 am 
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Urgh.
I mean stuff the guy touches has a very aggressive mainstream flat and loud sound. So yeah, if you want everything to have that fatiguing insert-current-pop-star-here kind of sound then sure.

Hey Dalton... Loudness wars are over guy......Sheesh...
Hey Dalton!!
I said.....

Oh he can't hear me, tinnitus....

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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:52 am 
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I wouldn't. I mean, anything can work in the right hands, but this is also a bad idea in nearly all cases I can think of. After all, a limiter is a very high ratio compressor whose main use is to maximize loudness--do you need or even want to do this on a channel or bus in your mix? I mean, then your other channels won't be loud enough, right?

Best to save the limiter for mastering, and instead use a compressor on your individual channels and busses.


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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:38 am 
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you could almost substitute 'compressor' for every time he says 'limiter.'

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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:44 am 
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Well it's a brilliant idea to use several limiters over production elements in your mix if the aim is to get that exhausting EDM bloating type of sound.
Who would want that though? It's Techno. We want a big low end.

If some elements in the mix needs a fuck ton of peak controlling it's way better to use soft-clipping beside the obvious use of compression.

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 Post subject: Re: Anny advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:51 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Urgh.
I mean stuff the guy touches has a very aggressive mainstream flat and loud sound. So yeah, if you want everything to have that fatiguing insert-current-pop-star-here kind of sound then sure.

Hey Dalton... Loudness wars are over guy......Sheesh...
Hey Dalton!!
I said.....

Oh he can't hear me, tinnitus....


It's weird because he made this (in collaboration) last year, which is a really quiet, gorgeous, classic hi-fi sounding listening record. Not the record you'd expect from someone that apparently puts a limiter on every channel.

https://www.discogs.com/Island-People-I ... er/1203268


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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:54 am 
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to be fair, he's not exactly crushing every channel. sounds like he uses in a subtle way. still does sounds strange to put a limiter on every channel.

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 Post subject: Re: Anny advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Urgh.
I mean stuff the guy touches has a very aggressive mainstream flat and loud sound. So yeah, if you want everything to have that fatiguing insert-current-pop-star-here kind of sound then sure.


Dude ... This is not fair ...

I mean he mastered tracks for the biggest labels and artists of the actual scene.

Such as Rodhad, Recondite, Slam, Ben Sims, Surgeon etc ...


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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:52 pm 
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you could use it on the kicks or the bass, I would not use it further though... I prefer using a compressor, cuz it gives me more control than a limiter...

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 Post subject: Re: Anny advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:31 pm 
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MeTeK wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
Urgh.
I mean stuff the guy touches has a very aggressive mainstream flat and loud sound. So yeah, if you want everything to have that fatiguing insert-current-pop-star-here kind of sound then sure.


Dude ... This is not fair ...

I mean he mastered tracks for the biggest labels and artists of the actual scene.

Such as Rodhad, Recondite, Slam, Ben Sims, Surgeon etc ...



Mastering and production are 2 different things.

I honestly don't think his mastering on techno has been very good. Would rather have Colton at alchemy or Mike at the exchange any day. These guys really understand versatility and appropriateness for genre.
This guy seems to put the same sheen on everything.
Sure techno is commercial now, but it doesn't need that horrible pop style mastering.
He slaughtered the daft punk stuff he mastered.

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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Only other time ill use a limiter on something other than my master channel is if i want to really squash a peak and get some saturation. I only do this with select limiters that i like the sound of though. Some limiters sound great when you drive a signal into it.

This can also be achieved through the use of soft clippers as well though.


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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:12 am 
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I can't think of any limiters in the software domain that saturate.
Well unless you count some of the emulations of old analog style limiters. Which by today's standards you can't really call limiters.

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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:32 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
I can't think of any limiters in the software domain that saturate.
Well unless you count some of the emulations of old analog style limiters. Which by today's standards you can't really call limiters.


Something like the L2 has a pleasant but subtle saturation on certain elements to my ears. I like the sound of driving a round subby kick into it to give it some tone.


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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:48 am 
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L2 doesn`t saturate. It distorts. Whether or not you find that pleasing is another matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Any advice on putting limiter on bus ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:17 am 
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MeTeK wrote:
What do you think about the technique he describe here ?

Thanks :)


It looks to me like Mr Dalton is encouraging people to tread a path where they're not really serving the material very musically or listening to what it needs at all. Just like "yeah whack a limiter on absolutely everything bro and skim up to 2db, PRO TIP"

I've been experimenting with different types of peak reduction at different points in the mixer while keeping in mind advice from people here like Voidloss, Mattias and others.

For sure, if you're going for that loud, low dynamic range, "Beatport" type sound then yeah... limiting on basically every channel will easily get you there with plenty of negative side effects.

I reckon a combination of saturation and compression on channels, plus a bit of parallel processing and very gentle limiting/soft clipping on busses is a better compromise; peaks are under control, dynamic range is more flexible and the detail/punch doesn't get so mushy. The only downside is a quieter track by a couple of LUs, but it seems like musicland is beginning to edge towards a more sensible standard in that regard anyway.


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