New samples packs for techno music.

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Barfunkel »

The_G wrote:
dubdub wrote:One-shot sample packs... ok. What I really don't get though is loops. On Reddit people always so it's just for inspiration. What the fuck are you even doing if you need to buy some pre-made loops to get ideas for your own fucking track?
This is what people say they are for, but what's the reality? People are lazy, and loops make lazy music easy.
AFAIK, there's a HUGE amount of people who just make music by cutting and pasting sample pack loops together. We just live in a bubble over here ( and other production-minded forums as well), cos obviously those kinda people usually don't go to forums to know about production techniques.
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

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delphine wrote:Goldbaby all day

http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/products.html#
Mattias chould ghostwrite for them! ..

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Críoch »

I've heard loops from all sorts of music on sample cds.

The main percussion loop from the 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' is directly lifted off a vengeance cd. Used totally as is.

The gorillaz track.. Clint Eastwood.. uses a loop called, guess what? Clint Eastwood.. from the Zero G Jungle Warfare disk. Straight up & no messing around.

Steve Angello got in shallow shit a few years back over knas or kvas or something.. taking the main loop from a a vengeance pack. It was bought regardless.

It's a bit crap using something straight.. but guess that's a special knack in itself, hearing something good & deciding to flesh it out.

The majority of loops ain't like an Amen Brother either. Not everything can be special.
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Amøbe »

dubdub wrote:One-shot sample packs... ok. What I really don't get though is loops. On Reddit people always so it's just for inspiration. What the fuck are you even doing if you need to buy some pre-made loops to get ideas for your own fucking track?
...I've actually listened a lot to the loops in the free Mattias pack to try and decipher how to build up grooves :P

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Planar »

Loops have their uses. I steal programming from loops all the time using the extract drums in Ableton; it's been a good way to learn some decent programming tricks. Break loops aren't really something you can program yourself unless you're insanely talented, either.

And Crioch is completely right, these things are just tools and sometimes get used well and sometimes don't. There are so many people around the world releasing professional sounding music, a lot of them surely have to be using construction kits. We've people who have been posting here years who don't sound that good because of their principles (I fully include myself here). Everyone has their own line, their sense of artistic morality and pragmatism.

It's been brought up before, but I always laugh at the Skream track thats just a preset from Reaktor. It probably took half an hour to make. I had no idea when I bought it all those years ago, though.

youtu.be/JHRC50SIb-Y

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by dubdub »

Planar wrote:'t. There are so many people around the world releasing professional sounding music, a lot of them surely have to be using construction kits. We've people who have been posting here years who don't sound that good because of their principles (I fully include myself here). Everyone has their own line, their sense of artistic morality and pragmatism.
But 99% of these loop-heavy sample packs sound like total dogshit. They only "sound good" for someone after that overprocessed, overcompressed, plastic beatport sound. I don't think there's any loop-pack out there that will make you shit out good sounding, credible underground techno in 1-2-3.

Presets are a whole nother story but that's because a lot of them actually sound very good. The list of bonafide classics using unedited or barely edited presets is endless.

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Lost to the Void »

Planar wrote:Loops have their uses. I steal programming from loops all the time using the extract drums in Ableton; it's been a good way to learn some decent programming tricks. Break loops aren't really something you can program yourself unless you're insanely talented, either.



youtu.be/JHRC50SIb-Y

You don't need to be insanely talented to program breaks.
You merely need to understand basic drumming.
Or have some musicality about you, and if you don't, stop making music.
Most breaks sit around ghost snare hits and the relationship, call and response, between the snares and the hats. People focus on the kick and snare but it's really the interplay between the mid and top elements.
Get the tuning right between your hats and your snare and you've done half the work.
This goes back to the "why tune your drums?" Thread from a while back.
I was shocked about the amount of replies in that thread who didn't see the point......
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Planar »

dubdub wrote:
Planar wrote:'t. There are so many people around the world releasing professional sounding music, a lot of them surely have to be using construction kits. We've people who have been posting here years who don't sound that good because of their principles (I fully include myself here). Everyone has their own line, their sense of artistic morality and pragmatism.
But 99% of these loop-heavy sample packs sound like total dogshit. They only "sound good" for someone after that overprocessed, overcompressed, plastic beatport sound. I don't think there's any loop-pack out there that will make you shit out good sounding, credible underground techno in 1-2-3.

Presets are a whole nother story but that's because a lot of them actually sound very good. The list of bonafide classics using unedited or barely edited presets is endless.
Which is why you're posting here. But lots of people do want to sound like that. They're not making these packs randomly, they have a market.

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Planar »

Lost to the Void wrote: You don't need to be insanely talented to program breaks.
You merely need to understand basic drumming.
Or have some musicality about you, and if you don't, stop making music.
Most breaks sit around ghost snare hits and the relationship, call and response, between the snares and the hats. People focus on the kick and snare but it's really the interplay between the mid and top elements.
Get the tuning right between your hats and your snare and you've done half the work.
This goes back to the "why tune your drums?" Thread from a while back.
I was shocked about the amount of replies in that thread who didn't see the point......
This is easy to say as a trained drummer (right?), but I doubt many if us who aren't would find this easy at all. Getting a basic stiff breakbeat isn't too hard, agreed. But getting the human element, the timing imperfections and velocity changes on top of the nicely tuned kit and sound of the room it's recorded in are hard. There's a reason those classic loops are used over and over again. There are probably people who'd sacrifice their left nut to be able to convincingly program an Amen from single hits for example.

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by winston »

Críoch wrote:I've heard loops from all sorts of music on sample cds.

The main percussion loop from the 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' is directly lifted off a vengeance cd. Used totally as is.

The gorillaz track.. Clint Eastwood.. uses a loop called, guess what? Clint Eastwood.. from the Zero G Jungle Warfare disk. Straight up & no messing around.

Steve Angello got in shallow shit a few years back over knas or kvas or something.. taking the main loop from a a vengeance pack. It was bought regardless.

It's a bit crap using something straight.. but guess that's a special knack in itself, hearing something good & deciding to flesh it out.

The majority of loops ain't like an Amen Brother either. Not everything can be special.
Slam had a track which used an Arp preset pattern and synth sound from some vst. it appeared in a house song too. i'll see if i can find it
pretty sure it is this one if i remember rightly
youtu.be/nF9vhYtOWvg

but there is skill in doing the rest of the track, and they obviously can write a tune. even if others help them out

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Rampage »

Nice forum!Thank you all for your advices!

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Mattias »

On the whole programming things; don't take this the wrong way if anyone feel hit but tons of people out there wants to create music but simply lack musicality to do so.
They tend to turn to blame technical issues instead of their own understanding of basic and elemental rhythm and tonal structure.
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Hades »

Planar wrote:Loops have their uses. I steal programming from loops all the time using the extract drums in Ableton; it's been a good way to learn some decent programming tricks. Break loops aren't really something you can program yourself unless you're insanely talented, either.

And Crioch is completely right, these things are just tools and sometimes get used well and sometimes don't. There are so many people around the world releasing professional sounding music, a lot of them surely have to be using construction kits. We've people who have been posting here years who don't sound that good because of their principles (I fully include myself here). Everyone has their own line, their sense of artistic morality and pragmatism.
I came across the main lead sound from a famous Rrose track in Reaktor (or at least a sound that was 95% there) :)

I think it's not the problem that you use presets or loops, it's the way you use 'em.
A preset is just a sound (for the sake of this discussion I am currently not talking about presets that have huge arp rhythms or sequences built into them,
possibly even 2 to 4 parts like that, like for example the track you just mentioned, Planar).

A piano is a preset, a violin is a preset, a clarinet is a preset,...
Yet people use them all the time, and have been using these sounds for centuries.
It's still the producer (composer) who puts in the notes that this sound eventually gets to play.
Problem is a lot of producers are musically... urm... I'm searching for a gentle expression here...
I would say under developed, but in quite a few cases they sound almost musically retarded. :|
And yet there are enough tutorials out there that can help them, but somehow it's just too much effort for them, so they never bother.
(just like learning sound design to make your own sounds or making their own loops is too much effort)

But I also think we as electronic musicians are over-focused on "making our own sounds",
while there are already tons of great sounds out there.
The hoover sound is an alpha juno preset, just to name a single example that pops up in my head.

Yet on the other hand I'll freely admit :
I have a slight sense of disrespect to producers who only use presets
(not talking about the ones who are still in the learning process here but the ones that just say "why the fuck bother?")
and I totally look down on producers that only throw some loops together and call it a day.
What is wrong with effort in our current society ?
It's like a word that makes people cringe.
If I have some guests over at my house, and just buy some prefab food and heat it up,
I'd sure as fuck feel as shit if people would compliment me and I'd pretend it was all done with my mad ninja cooking skills.
I'd feel like a big fucking cheater.

However, I don't think there's anything wrong in using presets, and if you take a loop once in a while, but make it your own,
by treating it creatively, chopping it up, running it through FX, whatever,
then why not ?
What counts for me is the effort you are willing to put into all this.
Don't call yourself creative or claim you made a piece of "art" (big word here) if you haven't done a single fucking creative thing at all.

And yeah, some of us might be over-focused on "purity", as Planar kind of mentioned,
I totally agree on that.
But on the other hand,
if someone were say a professional boxer, and he or she would have been training so many hours a day 7 days a week, for years and years,
and there's some guy who wins the world championship because he's taking steroids and can do the same and better while only putting in the effort 2 days a week.
I can understand others consider that as a way of cheating.
Except that cheating limit in music country isn't as narrow as in sports country. :)
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by nacorcb »

For some people, music is an art. For others, it is just a matter of bussiness.

And for most of the mainstream public music is nothing but entertainment, they dont care about the creative process.

But who cares? Some people get rich and famous with premade loops? Good for them, at least they are not hiring ghost producers... mostly.

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by RWise »

nacorcb wrote:For some people, music is an art. For others, it is just a matter of bussiness.

And for most of the mainstream public music is nothing but entertainment, they dont care about the creative process.

But who cares? Some people get rich and famous with premade loops? Good for them, at least they are not hiring ghost producers... mostly.
The true artists and creators will be able to tell apart the people who solely make music with samples and loops. Using 8 bar loops can only get you so far...

But like you touched on, in this industry theres 2 types of people. Artists and entertainers.
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Lost to the Void »

Planar wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: You don't need to be insanely talented to program breaks.
You merely need to understand basic drumming.
Or have some musicality about you, and if you don't, stop making music.
Most breaks sit around ghost snare hits and the relationship, call and response, between the snares and the hats. People focus on the kick and snare but it's really the interplay between the mid and top elements.
Get the tuning right between your hats and your snare and you've done half the work.
This goes back to the "why tune your drums?" Thread from a while back.
I was shocked about the amount of replies in that thread who didn't see the point......
This is easy to say as a trained drummer (right?), but I doubt many if us who aren't would find this easy at all. Getting a basic stiff breakbeat isn't too hard, agreed. But getting the human element, the timing imperfections and velocity changes on top of the nicely tuned kit and sound of the room it's recorded in are hard. There's a reason those classic loops are used over and over again. There are probably people who'd sacrifice their left nut to be able to convincingly program an Amen from single hits for example.
I'm not accusing or pointing a finger at you by the way, I'm just replying to your post in general.

I'm not a trained drummer. I have been playing the drums for a long time, well....
I had some lessons in school (classical drum training is shit, I wanted to rock out) and joined a band when I was 15 or 16.
And played in bands until I was about 21.
I sold my kit to by electronic gear when we went full industrial, and have owned electronic drum kits over the years until I sold my last one about..? 8 years ago?

So self taught, by listening to drums and playing along with records. But I've not really been religiously playing all my life or anything.
Can't remember how to read drum tab.

Groove is easy to apply, you can use groove/shuffle templates and get great natural sounding beats. It's really not hard. Getting ghost hits right and so on is just a matter of observation, and it's this more than any kind of shuffle that gets the beat most of the way there.

Listen to some breaks, slow them down, analyse, copy them with your own sounds and programming, do it until you get good.

I mean that is pretty much how I have got all of my production and musical skills.

Ok production wise I worked in a studio for a while, and picked up some kills and knowledge, and I ghosted some engineers to learn mastering. But musically I'm entirely self taught.

Breaks are easy. I mean, if you can make a half decent techno tune then you have the skills to study how breaks are constructed and do a good job of it yourself.

There really is no barrier to what you can achieve (pep talk time) musically, if you have some natural musical talent (important) and the desire to learn, AND the committment to practice.


Talking of breaks.
I did a remix from a very old friend recently who's in a festival rave band.
I did a real old skill hardcore style breaks based remix.
Drums are all vst, addictive drums 2 (great vst for programming natural sounding drums).
https://www.beatport.com/track/raves-li ... ix/9706120
Really had a lot of fun. Programming breaks is an "art". But there is no reason anyone here can't get good at it if they work at it. I'm certainly no Ginger Baker on the drums, but I get by.
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Southpaw »

Planar wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: You don't need to be insanely talented to program breaks.
You merely need to understand basic drumming.
Or have some musicality about you, and if you don't, stop making music.
Most breaks sit around ghost snare hits and the relationship, call and response, between the snares and the hats. People focus on the kick and snare but it's really the interplay between the mid and top elements.
Get the tuning right between your hats and your snare and you've done half the work.
This goes back to the "why tune your drums?" Thread from a while back.
I was shocked about the amount of replies in that thread who didn't see the point......
This is easy to say as a trained drummer (right?), but I doubt many if us who aren't would find this easy at all. Getting a basic stiff breakbeat isn't too hard, agreed. But getting the human element, the timing imperfections and velocity changes on top of the nicely tuned kit and sound of the room it's recorded in are hard. There's a reason those classic loops are used over and over again. There are probably people who'd sacrifice their left nut to be able to convincingly program an Amen from single hits for example.
I've just come back off holiday and had to sit through over 2 weeks on DnB & Jungle co's we forgot to sort out the music prep. Anyway, I think you're both right. I don't know a lot about Techno other than being interested in trying it lately but I have spent a lot of time with DnB & Jungle and I think it's a thing a lot of guys realise when making that music. 'Can I write my own breaks'?

Personally, from a lot of time trying, I think it's a yes and no thing but it depends on what you are looking for in the final result. What Lost To The Void wrote outlines what is important in the patterns. If you're trying to program realistic breaks from a pile of randomly collected one shots, it's generally a tough call. It can be done but it will usually sound like it's a 'fake break' - which is no bad thing, it's just different. In fact, there is kudos for good fake breaks all the time. It's just a different feel and it's worth knowing what feel you want beforehand.

Don't forget though that when sampling breaks, often there is a tiny window of opportunity where there is no backing music. Often, this means that you may only get to grab say a bar or a few bars. There's only a limited amount of nuance going on over a period of a bar, if you write your own breaks, you only have to do so much to replicate this feel with the right sounds.

When we were doing the fake break stuff, we'd generally still use one shots that were all taken from the same break so as to be sonically cohesive and chopping in 8ths and sometimes 4ths or even 16ths depending on the break so you keep the rolls and then you assign them to various chromatic keys for retriggerring in mono mode so everything cuts everything off.

Some guys still do this now even with their own breaks, LTTV mention addictive drums - I don't know anything about that but I know a few mates who use it and I know what they're doing in a roundabout way which is this:

For the fake break Jungle stuff, it's a case of doing all the hard work in something like addictive drums at a certain tempo because you're gonna be pitching up and chopping later. At a rough estimate, you might be looking at around 110 to 130 bpm to make your break in something like that. For Jungle, you're gonna be sampling it and then playing it back via midi so lets say you just made this great break in addictive drums. Give it character, and then sample it then lose addictive drums and load your loop up in a sampler and audition it at +1, +2, +3 semitones etc and fine tunes until you sit your kick around 100hz and get in a ballpark tempo for this stuff.

Then you just chop away and treat the loop as if you sampled it anyways, but when you resequence the hits, everything LTTV said will come into play as well but you'll have a self made sonically cohesive kit to work with...
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Huck Farper »

The obvious answer to learning basics is to instead spend thousands on Elektron gear and build a modular synth. /s

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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Southpaw »

Críoch wrote:
The gorillaz track.. Clint Eastwood.. uses a loop called, guess what? Clint Eastwood.. from the Zero G Jungle Warfare disk. Straight up & no messing around.
.
Been checking it out but no comprende
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Re: New samples packs for techno music.

Post by Barfunkel »

winston wrote:
Slam had a track which used an Arp preset pattern and synth sound from some vst. it appeared in a house song too. i'll see if i can find it
pretty sure it is this one if i remember rightly
youtu.be/nF9vhYtOWvg

but there is skill in doing the rest of the track, and they obviously can write a tune. even if others help them out
I've heard that same arpeggio on several tracks, always wondered what synth it's from.
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