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 Post subject: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:41 pm 
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reverse genius
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Hey guys, going to ask probably a stupid question here. I know there isn't any written rules but would you say having those three elements in a track is too much?

The reason I ask is because usually I would just have a kick and bass with one or the other carrying more sub, but one time I added in a low end loop (one of mattias fridells packs I believe) and it really transformed the way it sounded, but I thought this would be overkill in the low end.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:56 am 
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Well its hard to say something set in stone without hearing an audio example but technically if you have a sub and kick that dont clash, then you can have a 'bass line' over that. However, this is if the bassline is low cut and is sitting more in the mids-low mid spectrum.

Having a kick, sub and bassline with all its sub content will be overkill. The bassline should be more of a low synth lead sound, rather than a subby bassline if you get me.

Usually what works is having a kick and sub, or a kick and bassline and the sub comes from the bassline. Keep the low end relatively clean and simple for techno. Dont over-complicate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Alf Garnett
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This I find to be one of the most difficult tasks of techno - that and making something of a high caliber!

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Yea, Im finding it difficult aswell.

I think I may be trying to over complicate things, or my I really need to work on my mixing skills.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:38 pm 
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a subby kick, a sub answering on the offnotes and a 303 above works just fine for me

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:04 am 
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Alf Garnett
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JonasVolkenborn wrote:
a subby kick, a sub answering on the offnotes and a 303 above works just fine for me



Sometimes I think the 303 doesn't clarify as a bass - I'm also drunk

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:05 am 
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Bass is the hardest thing to get right in a small studio.
There is a fine line between fullness and muddyness in the lows.
Without context it is impossible to say yes or no to the OP question.

But.

The more you stick down there, the harder it is to keep clarity, definition, punch.
And on less than full range systems it becomes even more challenging.

Impossible?
No.
Inadvisable?
Erm....
..
No.

But it helps to have your technique down. Good accurate EQ decisions, control over dynamics, space.

Yeah you can make it work for sure, but it's not an easy thing to do.
I love bass.
I looooooooove bass.
And I do some crazy inadvisable stuff with my bottom end, and sometimes it's a real fucking task to reign it all in, and I have excellent monitoring, years of experience and I know what I am doing. I still get it wrong sometimes and have to cut it back.

So sure. Do it, but get your techniques in line.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am 
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Esca
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Amøbe wrote:
JonasVolkenborn wrote:
a subby kick, a sub answering on the offnotes and a 303 above works just fine for me



Sometimes I think the 303 doesn't clarify as a bass - I'm also drunk


Depends on the settings. 303 (and clones of course) can make really nice and liquidy basslines when the resonance is close to zero. Turn up the resonance and it's more like a lead.

And of course depends on how low notes you program on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:08 pm 
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i always try to do the following "trick" :
kick --> search for the root note
bass --> add a perfect fifth note
sub --> add the same bass with very low eq'ed and then add something like Meldaproductions MBassador ... a unique piece of plugin !

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:31 pm 
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reverse genius
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Brilliant guys for all the tips.

Just another quick question regarding bass, I usually use operator for sub/low basses, is it wrong to use "spread" knob for this? I usually keep for low frequencies in mono and not sure if spread is effecting this as it makes the bass sound wider.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick, bass and sub bass too much?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Macca wrote:
Brilliant guys for all the tips.

Just another quick question regarding bass, I usually use operator for sub/low basses, is it wrong to use "spread" knob for this? I usually keep for low frequencies in mono and not sure if spread is effecting this as it makes the bass sound wider.


Dont spread low end.

A good rule of thumb is to keep 100-120hz in mono and spread anything above that (try to avoid haas effect width). When you spread low mids, it gives the illusion that the low end is wide. So you get the big wide low sound but retain the punch and avoid phase problems by having the lows in mono.

Using things like short reverb and delays is great for spreading out the slightly lower mid spectrum without causing mono compatibility problems.


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