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 Post subject: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:41 pm 
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hi guys,

been trying to create 90ies ish pads like in...

https://youtu.be/4YXRc2qN1cI?t=2m39s

https://youtu.be/y_LlKB8RlXA?t=4m3s

https://youtu.be/y_LlKB8RlXA?t=4m50s

been using omnisphere, but it mostly sounds different, too modern...

i'm pretty sure somewhere in my tons of vst's there must be pads hidden like those, guess it was one or several particular synths from the 80ies / 90ies?

any pointers to which one would be appreciated.

thx!

a.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:44 pm 
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I've made similar by recording whatever chords I want and putting them through paulstretch, pitching and resampling as you go.

FM synths work well, but really any chord in any synth.

Whack it in TAL Sampler and drag the loop points until you get a seamless loop. Filter / FX / EQ etc


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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:50 pm 
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I was going to say Korg M1 or Juno 106 for 90s pads but the pads in the tracks you posted don't sound 90s at all. They're very generic 2017 digital sounding. Random high pitched chord, string-ish patch, decent amount of pitch modulation, lots and lots of detune, extra chorus and chorus-y reverb, saturation, high pass filter. Maybe resample with reverb multiple times. You can do that with almost any subtractive synth.

Personally I can't stand these type of string-y pads that have appeared on all the """"emotional"""" bigroom tracks in the last 2 years. There's just something about them harmonically that's super grating to my ears, it just sounds sooo cheap and fake emotional to my ears. Fake trance. Sorry, I'm just ranting at this point, had to let that out after hearing these every week in the hardwax news for past year or so :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:19 pm 
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These just sound like synth strings.
Should be doable with any analog poly.
Top end is rolled down, either with EQ or just closing down the lowpass.

I would say your standard synth string of osc 1 Square, Osc 2 Saw, roll down the high end, soften the attack, add a little chorus, a little PW modulation and some vibrato and you are probably nearly there.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:11 pm 
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for me it is nothing more then a small lead with loads of reverb & delay on it (full wet) and then resample and putting in a sampler with a loop on a small piece and with crossfades on begin & end ...

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:43 pm 
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dubdub wrote:
I was going to say Korg M1 or Juno 106 for 90s pads but the pads in the tracks you posted don't sound 90s at all. They're very generic 2017 digital sounding. Random high pitched chord, string-ish patch, decent amount of pitch modulation, lots and lots of detune, extra chorus and chorus-y reverb, saturation, high pass filter. Maybe resample with reverb multiple times. You can do that with almost any subtractive synth.


yeah, tbh, I would think you can do that with pretty much any poly synth or by using a sampler.

dubdub wrote:
Personally I can't stand these type of string-y pads that have appeared on all the """"emotional"""" bigroom tracks in the last 2 years. There's just something about them harmonically that's super grating to my ears, it just sounds sooo cheap and fake emotional to my ears. Fake trance. Sorry, I'm just ranting at this point, had to let that out after hearing these every week in the hardwax news for past year or so :oops:


haha, :D
I always have this love/hate thing with big room techno.
When it's well done, I can really appreciate it from time to time.
But nowadays, it's as if literally everyone is trying to make big room techno.
It's just everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:50 pm 
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It's a ''supersaw'' with a decent amount of detuning, some delay and a long reverb.


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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:24 am 
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I thought this thread would be about Derrick May-ish pads/strings lol.

Son, I am disappoint.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:27 pm 
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dubdub wrote:
I was going to say Korg M1 or Juno 106 for 90s pads but the pads in the tracks you posted don't sound 90s at all. They're very generic 2017 digital sounding. Random high pitched chord, string-ish patch, decent amount of pitch modulation, lots and lots of detune, extra chorus and chorus-y reverb, saturation, high pass filter. Maybe resample with reverb multiple times. You can do that with almost any subtractive synth.

Personally I can't stand these type of string-y pads that have appeared on all the """"emotional"""" bigroom tracks in the last 2 years. There's just something about them harmonically that's super grating to my ears, it just sounds sooo cheap and fake emotional to my ears. Fake trance. Sorry, I'm just ranting at this point, had to let that out after hearing these every week in the hardwax news for past year or so :oops:


I've been dreaming about owning a Juno 106 for a long time and it was the first thing that came into my mind when I read the post without listening to the examples. Lot's of input here, thanks. Would you mind going a bit further into detail with the pitch modulation part? :?: Much appreciated, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:37 pm 
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SHIDZO wrote:
dubdub wrote:
I was going to say Korg M1 or Juno 106 for 90s pads but the pads in the tracks you posted don't sound 90s at all. They're very generic 2017 digital sounding. Random high pitched chord, string-ish patch, decent amount of pitch modulation, lots and lots of detune, extra chorus and chorus-y reverb, saturation, high pass filter. Maybe resample with reverb multiple times. You can do that with almost any subtractive synth.

Personally I can't stand these type of string-y pads that have appeared on all the """"emotional"""" bigroom tracks in the last 2 years. There's just something about them harmonically that's super grating to my ears, it just sounds sooo cheap and fake emotional to my ears. Fake trance. Sorry, I'm just ranting at this point, had to let that out after hearing these every week in the hardwax news for past year or so :oops:


I've been dreaming about owning a Juno 106 for a long time and it was the first thing that came into my mind when I read the post without listening to the examples. Lot's of input here, thanks. Would you mind going a bit further into detail with the pitch modulation part? :?: Much appreciated, thanks!


tbh, what is there more to say about pitch modulation ?
Pretty much 80% of the time, pitch modulation happens by using an LFO.
Hell, Boards Of Canada made a slowly modulated pitch sound by an LFO as an integral part of their sound for many many years.
Standard sine or triangle gives you that typical kind of "slowly drifting in and out of tune" sound when used on slow rates.
(tip : most of the times, LFO's that modulate your pitch are set to slow rates because the effect is otherwise far too extreme)
Square LFO will give you a siren kind of sound.
Obviously, S&H will give you a sound with a more randomly changing pitch.

If you decide to use an envelope to modulate your pitch, then the picth will just follow the settings of your envelope,
according to the amount you have decided upon in your amount parameter (isn't that something ?).

The only other pitch modulators I can think of are more exotic stuff like a step sequencer, (or maybe even just general pitch automation in your sequencer),
which means your pitch will change to the amount/height you have set in each step of your sequence.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Hades wrote:
SHIDZO wrote:
dubdub wrote:
I was going to say Korg M1 or Juno 106 for 90s pads but the pads in the tracks you posted don't sound 90s at all. They're very generic 2017 digital sounding. Random high pitched chord, string-ish patch, decent amount of pitch modulation, lots and lots of detune, extra chorus and chorus-y reverb, saturation, high pass filter. Maybe resample with reverb multiple times. You can do that with almost any subtractive synth.

Personally I can't stand these type of string-y pads that have appeared on all the """"emotional"""" bigroom tracks in the last 2 years. There's just something about them harmonically that's super grating to my ears, it just sounds sooo cheap and fake emotional to my ears. Fake trance. Sorry, I'm just ranting at this point, had to let that out after hearing these every week in the hardwax news for past year or so :oops:


I've been dreaming about owning a Juno 106 for a long time and it was the first thing that came into my mind when I read the post without listening to the examples. Lot's of input here, thanks. Would you mind going a bit further into detail with the pitch modulation part? :?: Much appreciated, thanks!


tbh, what is there more to say about pitch modulation ?
Pretty much 80% of the time, pitch modulation happens by using an LFO.
Hell, Boards Of Canada made a slowly modulated pitch sound by an LFO as an integral part of their sound for many many years.
Standard sine or triangle gives you that typical kind of "slowly drifting in and out of tune" sound when used on slow rates.
(tip : most of the times, LFO's that modulate your pitch are set to slow rates because the effect is otherwise far too extreme)
Square LFO will give you a siren kind of sound.
Obviously, S&H will give you a sound with a more randomly changing pitch.

If you decide to use an envelope to modulate your pitch, then the picth will just follow the settings of your envelope,
according to the amount you have decided upon in your amount parameter (isn't that something ?).

The only other pitch modulators I can think of are more exotic stuff like a step sequencer, (or maybe even just general pitch automation in your sequencer),
which means your pitch will change to the amount/height you have set in each step of your sequence.


Thanks man :) And in this case it was exactly the 80% I missed. So far I've only actively used envelopes for pitch modulation on kicks so I thought "WTF how does that work on the synths of the topic we are talking about??? These people are mental" - I feel a bit stupid now, I have used an LFO on a pitch envelope before as well. I was playing around with this looooong synth and I thought "Hey, why not putting a bit of an LFO on the pitch to get this bitch moving around little bit?!" I appreciate the input and the time you took. And thank you too for pointing me to Boards of Canada, this shit is great. Fucking hell I feel like a mouth-breather now... Like a funny mouth-breather though. Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:30 am 
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SHIDZO wrote:
Thanks man :) And in this case it was exactly the 80% I missed. So far I've only actively used envelopes for pitch modulation on kicks so I thought "WTF how does that work on the synths of the topic we are talking about??? These people are mental" - I feel a bit stupid now, I have used an LFO on a pitch envelope before as well. I was playing around with this looooong synth and I thought "Hey, why not putting a bit of an LFO on the pitch to get this bitch moving around little bit?!" I appreciate the input and the time you took. And thank you too for pointing me to Boards of Canada, this shit is great. Fucking hell I feel like a mouth-breather now... Like a funny mouth-breather though. Cheers


no problem. getting the theory down is really not that hard. Making it all click in your head afterwards is a lot harder.

Pay in mind that when you have a pitch envelope on a drum synth (and even on some other synths, Live's Analog has one like that as well),
it's usually simplified, like it can move only upwards or downwards to the setting of your original pitch (=the note you play or the note that your sequencer is playing).
Also, drum sounds are extremely short compared to most other synth sounds, so a pitch envelope like that is usually more than enough.
It's a bit as if you would be using an upwards or downwards saw LFO to modulate pitch.

More sofisticated synths usually have the same style ADSR envelope for their pitch like they have for their filter and volume.
Pay in mind that you can use your pitch and filter envelope negatively, but of course you can't do that with your volume.
I was once in a so called "sound design" class given by Rob Papen and he was saying there's no such thing as a negative envelope,
while fucking hell, yes there is, but of course only for filter and pitch.
For pitch it would mean you make the pitch go down first (attack) and then back up (decay) to the level set by your sustain, where it would stay as long as you hold your note (or the sequencer is still playing the same note), and then it would go up again to the original note's pitch when you release the note.
for filter it would mean you make the cutoff close first (attack), then it opens up again (decay), to the level set by your sustain, where it would stay as long as you hold your note (or the sequencer is still playing the same note), and then it would go up again to the original cutoff setting when you release the note.

Now the reason people usually use LFO's for their pitch modulation, is simply that envelopes are usually too drastic, and pitch modulation usually happens less extreme than for example filter modulation, or else you end up with a sound that's in the FX sounds kind of ballpark. Plus, very important, LFO's replay all the time. Envelopes only play once. There are enough synths out there with loopable envelopes (in part (for example the sustain phase) or completely), but that's more exception than rule.

Now, when you say above :

Quote:
I have used an LFO on a pitch envelope before as well.


you probably mean you used an LFO to modulate the pitch before,
because when you say pitch envelope, you are technically saying that you were modulating a control signal (envelope) with another control signal (LFO).
This is of course possible, but definitely not on every synth, and it happens rarely that people use this.
A pitch envelope is a control signal routed to the pitch, but pitch is the parameter, the "thing you can change", to put it ultra-simple.

You can also route 2 LFO's or even more to the same parameter, or for example 2 envelopes to the same filter.
It can give you interesting results, if you have the option to try this on a synth, be sure to check it out.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:43 am 
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I found that in the days where I was still learning to properly understand that stuff,
it helped a lot when I saw knobs move (or the lights around knobs when it's encoders on HW or controllers and stuff).
Seeing it happen before my eyes helped me better to understand what I was hearing.

What you could do, for example, is take a panning knob,
and route a M4L LFO to that knob.
Start with sine, then use a triangle (the results will be almost the same except the knob will stay a little longer around the center with a sine)
Then use a square, and end with S&H
Just watch what the LFO does.
It controls your panning. It's saying : now move there in the stereo field, now go there,...

It's exactly the same for an envelope, it's telling the parameter you sent it to to go up or down or hold it's current value (sustain).

If you don't have M4L, you could still make a small clip with pitch automation, and draw in a triangle waveform yourself.
The results are similar.
This is also an important thing to realize : automation in Live (whether in clips in the session view or longer ones in arrangement view) is nothing else than another control signal. Just like an LFO is an extra hand that tells your pitch or cutoff or whatever to move around, your automation is telling your pitch or cutoff or whatever to move around. It's the same simple principle.
This means, that you can see a simple automation clip in Live as an LFO with unlimited sort of waveforms, if you like.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Hades wrote:
SHIDZO wrote:
Thanks man :) And in this case it was exactly the 80% I missed. So far I've only actively used envelopes for pitch modulation on kicks so I thought "WTF how does that work on the synths of the topic we are talking about??? These people are mental" - I feel a bit stupid now, I have used an LFO on a pitch envelope before as well. I was playing around with this looooong synth and I thought "Hey, why not putting a bit of an LFO on the pitch to get this bitch moving around little bit?!" I appreciate the input and the time you took. And thank you too for pointing me to Boards of Canada, this shit is great. Fucking hell I feel like a mouth-breather now... Like a funny mouth-breather though. Cheers


no problem. getting the theory down is really not that hard. Making it all click in your head afterwards is a lot harder.

Pay in mind that when you have a pitch envelope on a drum synth (and even on some other synths, Live's Analog has one like that as well),
it's usually simplified, like it can move only upwards or downwards to the setting of your original pitch (=the note you play or the note that your sequencer is playing).
Also, drum sounds are extremely short compared to most other synth sounds, so a pitch envelope like that is usually more than enough.
It's a bit as if you would be using an upwards or downwards saw LFO to modulate pitch.

More sofisticated synths usually have the same style ADSR envelope for their pitch like they have for their filter and volume.
Pay in mind that you can use your pitch and filter envelope negatively, but of course you can't do that with your volume.
I was once in a so called "sound design" class given by Rob Papen and he was saying there's no such thing as a negative envelope,
while fucking hell, yes there is, but of course only for filter and pitch.
For pitch it would mean you make the pitch go down first (attack) and then back up (decay) to the level set by your sustain, where it would stay as long as you hold your note (or the sequencer is still playing the same note), and then it would go up again to the original note's pitch when you release the note.
for filter it would mean you make the cutoff close first (attack), then it opens up again (decay), to the level set by your sustain, where it would stay as long as you hold your note (or the sequencer is still playing the same note), and then it would go up again to the original cutoff setting when you release the note.

Now the reason people usually use LFO's for their pitch modulation, is simply that envelopes are usually too drastic, and pitch modulation usually happens less extreme than for example filter modulation, or else you end up with a sound that's in the FX sounds kind of ballpark. Plus, very important, LFO's replay all the time. Envelopes only play once. There are enough synths out there with loopable envelopes (in part (for example the sustain phase) or completely), but that's more exception than rule.

Now, when you say above :

Quote:
I have used an LFO on a pitch envelope before as well.


you probably mean you used an LFO to modulate the pitch before,
because when you say pitch envelope, you are technically saying that you were modulating a control signal (envelope) with another control signal (LFO).
This is of course possible, but definitely not on every synth, and it happens rarely that people use this.
A pitch envelope is a control signal routed to the pitch, but pitch is the parameter, the "thing you can change", to put it ultra-simple.

You can also route 2 LFO's or even more to the same parameter, or for example 2 envelopes to the same filter.
It can give you interesting results, if you have the option to try this on a synth, be sure to check it out.


I printed this. Very useful information and explained for dummies. Business idea for you: Music production for dummies. I would buy it. It's sometimes really hard to understand what's going on. English is not my native language and there are always heaps abbreviations. So I google the word, find the explanation with two new abbreviations and so it begins. The good thing is, it all makes sense to me (okay, after I read it for three times, but that doesn't matter...)

And you are totally right, never used an LFO on the pitch envelope but on the pitch itself.

That moment when I sit there like "aaaaaaaahhhh of couuuurse" - I love it!

Thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it. This forum rocks!

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:44 pm 
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SHIDZO wrote:
I printed this. Very useful information and explained for dummies. Business idea for you: Music production for dummies. I would buy it. It's sometimes really hard to understand what's going on. English is not my native language and there are always heaps abbreviations.
...


I used to give sound design classes in my studio.
still do once every blue moon.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:55 pm 
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but I was never after anyone's money, like 95% of all tutorials online (or in real life) unfortunately are...
My motto was simple : I only wanted to offer the help that wasn't around when I first started out with synths,
and for a price that was extremely reasonable.
I also only took in 1 person at a time, so it was totally 1 on 1 training,
and not some group lesson where the level of the class is always determined by the stupidity of the slowest person (unfortunately).
Always spiked with practical examples and hands on exercises on the synths I got here.
Or to put it this way : I did it out of sheer idealism and love for sound/synths, not because I wanted to get other people's money.

btw, mr SHIDZO, if you're a Live user.
I made a Live pack for the subsekt community about a year ago.
It's got about 50 kicks I designed from scratch and then ran through my Midas EQ.
and another 50 or so clips from my clip library with a bit of everything (bass, pads, lead, textures,...)
And I added 15 or so presets for Live's Analog synth, again made from scratch,
in rack format, with macro knobs routed to the best parameters.
If anything, I do believe those presets can be handy if you want to see how some of these sounds are built.
It's totally free. If you're interested, just send me a PM on my SC.

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:38 pm 
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Andre_Crom wrote:
hi guys,

been trying to create 90ies ish pads like in...

https://youtu.be/4YXRc2qN1cI?t=2m39s

https://youtu.be/y_LlKB8RlXA?t=4m3s

https://youtu.be/y_LlKB8RlXA?t=4m50s

been using omnisphere, but it mostly sounds different, too modern...

i'm pretty sure somewhere in my tons of vst's there must be pads hidden like those, guess it was one or several particular synths from the 80ies / 90ies?

any pointers to which one would be appreciated.

thx!

a.


What VSTs do you have?


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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:56 am 
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What Voidloss said, but I also use Dent 2 to decrease my sample rate and roll off some high end.


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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:58 am 
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Hades wrote:
but I was never after anyone's money, like 95% of all tutorials online (or in real life) unfortunately are...
My motto was simple : I only wanted to offer the help that wasn't around when I first started out with synths,
and for a price that was extremely reasonable.
I also only took in 1 person at a time, so it was totally 1 on 1 training,
and not some group lesson where the level of the class is always determined by the stupidity of the slowest person (unfortunately).
Always spiked with practical examples and hands on exercises on the synths I got here.
Or to put it this way : I did it out of sheer idealism and love for sound/synths, not because I wanted to get other people's money.

btw, mr SHIDZO, if you're a Live user.
I made a Live pack for the subsekt community about a year ago.
It's got about 50 kicks I designed from scratch and then ran through my Midas EQ.
and another 50 or so clips from my clip library with a bit of everything (bass, pads, lead, textures,...)
And I added 15 or so presets for Live's Analog synth, again made from scratch,
in rack format, with macro knobs routed to the best parameters.
If anything, I do believe those presets can be handy if you want to see how some of these sounds are built.
It's totally free. If you're interested, just send me a PM on my SC.


Any chance you live in Berlin? Simple and good motto. Genuine people would appreciate that.
Every day I wish I cross path with a stranger who could become my mentor. Catch up, kill beers, jam and learn. One day... ;)

I would be pleased if I could get the pack exactly for the fact of seeing how the sounds are built. Message is coming. I guess you made everything with Ableton stock plug ins and instruments? I try and become a master of Ableton before I get other plug ins. You know, all the gear and no idea...

Thanks man :)

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 Post subject: Re: 80ies/90ies pads
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:54 pm 
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SHIDZO wrote:
Any chance you live in Berlin? Simple and good motto. Genuine people would appreciate that.
Every day I wish I cross path with a stranger who could become my mentor. Catch up, kill beers, jam and learn. One day... ;)

I would be pleased if I could get the pack exactly for the fact of seeing how the sounds are built. Message is coming. I guess you made everything with Ableton stock plug ins and instruments? I try and become a master of Ableton before I get other plug ins. You know, all the gear and no idea...

Thanks man :)


nah man, I used to live and work in boring Mainz for 2,5 years,
but that was already like 15 years ago by now
(and I sure don't miss it, what a shitty city that was, 20.000 students and yet after like 23:00, the streets were almost dead!!
At the time, I lived in a city with 30.000 students and it had (and still has) a massive nightlife :) )

yes, all the presets are made with only Analog and Ableton's stock plugins
(with Live 7 at the time I think, so you might be seeing that "upgrade" button on some of the FX :D ).
Quite a few years ago, I decided I wanted to use only one synth and program as many patches from scratch as I could.
Limit your options and just learn the shit.
So in a few months time I made a few hundreds of presets for Analog,
and then made some more for Operator,
and while I was selling some of the HW synths I wasn't using enough, I sampled some of those,
and afterwards ended up making some more presets for simpler.

tbh, I don't think it should be hard to find someone who can give you some sound design teaching when you live in Berlin.
Just beware that a LOT of all the classes/lessons/tutorials that are out there are always from people that are just there to get your money.
I tried quite a few, bought some books, even went for a week of personal training with one of the first official Ableton trainers in London
(must be almost 9 years ago now, can't believe how time flies). Honestly didn't even learn a lot there.
The only thing that really counts, is putting in the hours.
The seat I'm sitting on has the top so trashed that I have to put a towel on top or else the filling will come through and irritate my legs.
The main controller (synth) that I use has the paint coming off from the places where I put my hands on the most.
Just put in the hours.
Good lessons are very few and very far between, and if you do find them, they will surely help you,
but nothing beats putting in the hours.

_________________
If you can't laugh with yourself, someone else should do it for you ! ;)



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