It is currently Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:47 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:55 am 
Offline
Reactionary
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:14 pm
Posts: 905
Lost to the Void wrote:
The_G wrote:
Okay...

I've got Satson channel on every channel and all the VU meters are just at 0. I put Satson Buss on my busses and did nothing with them, but turned crosstalk off. I put Satson Buss on my master channel, and turned crosstalk on (and set to vintage). Some questions:

*I haven't messed with any groups, because frankly I don't have any idea what the hell that does!
*The VU meter on the master is peaking beyond 0 VU, but I'm not sure how to fix that...through the individual Satson channels?
*When you say turn on the loudness setting, do you mean the fat switch on the front or the "loud process" option on the back panel?


Loud process, it works nicely on the master.
I don't use the group's but it can be handy to control all plugs from one ie gain or fat or whatever. I've never found the need for it.
The reason I turn off crosstalk on all but the master buss is I think it overdoes the effect and can lead to overly dense mixes.


Thanks man. In my year of posting on here, I've learned just to do whatever you do, as it always works. So I'm going to follow this exactly. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:11 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8948
Ok, so when your vu on the master is peaking over odb, just grab all your channel faders and pull them down.
Unless you want to push the bus a little, which can work nicely with the loud process on.
Working this way, keeping an eye on your master bus plug level, you will find you work at a more consistent monitoring level over time.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Some hard shit
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:19 pm 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Posts: 8
Hi All. Thought I'd revive this thread as I have a Satson question.

The instructions say to insert Satson channel on all tracks as a "first insert", which I take to mean the first audio effect in the chain (i.e. directly after the sound source and before any other effects).

If that understanding is correct, does that also mean that I should add Satson channel as the first effect in the chain within an ableton instrument rack? I'm 90% sure this would be the case, but I wanted to double check in case the grouping of effects into a rack somehow alters things, meaning Satson should instead be inserted afterwards.

Hope someone can get me from 90% sure to 100% sure!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:29 pm 
Offline
Chernobyl

Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 108
Yeah so it would go instrument first then Satson Effect then anything else after that


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:28 pm 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Posts: 8
ekwipt wrote:
Yeah so it would go instrument first then Satson Effect then anything else after that

Thanks so much for confirming :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:11 pm 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Posts: 8
Hi all,

I’ve just started a new project and I’m using Satson properly for the first time. I’ve read the manual, this thread and other threads pretty thoroughly, but I still have a few questions. Sorry if I’m asking obvious stuff, but I’m being super careful to get things right in this project as early as possible so i don’t have to spend ages unravelling a mess later..

In an example from my project, I'm using two ableton Operator's next to each other in an instrument rack. As advised earlier in this thread, I've added a satson channel directly after each Operator in the instrument rack.

I've then added a single satson buss after the instrument rack (with an audio effect rack afterwards, shared by both operators). See the first screenshot below.

The first thing I want to confirm is whether it is correct to place a Satson Buss here; should i be using it in ableton groups and is it correct to place it before the audio effect rack which is used across the group?

The next thing I am concerned about is the output settings of the Operator, in relation to reaching 0VU in Satson channel:

- When I initially opened up each of the Operator’s Satson channel’s and increased the trim to get them hitting 0Vu, I found myself turning them almost all the way up to achieve this. When I looked back at each Operator, I noticed the sound producing oscillators were at -14db, a setting likely settled on when I was designing the sound.

- My instinctive response was to turn the oscillators in both Operators to their max output (0.0db - see the final screenshot), which then allowed me to achieve a 0VU level in each Satson channel with around a 1 o’clock setting.

- This feels like the right thing to do but I’m a very cautious noob and before my recent adventures into gain staging/console emulation, I’ve rarely turned any sound sources to their maximum output.

I’m 90% sure that turning the output level of a sound source up fully (an oscillator in Operator in this instance) is an ok thing to do, but I’m still a little worried that this may actually be bad, hence me wanting to check-in with you wise folks before continuing in this manner!

So any thoughts on how I’m approaching this? Any schoolboy errors, or am I doing ok following my instincts in this way?

Also, sorry for crap quality screenshots, best i could get them. If it helps, the instrument rack chain is:

| Inst Rack = operator x2 -> satson channel x2 | satson buss | Audio Effect Rack|


Attachments:
help1.png
help1.png [ 33.77 KiB | Viewed 170 times ]
help3.png
help3.png [ 45.55 KiB | Viewed 170 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:34 pm 
Offline
Alliterate

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:49 pm
Posts: 1068
In theory it shouldn't matter whether you turn up the level inside Operator or Satson, they should achieve the same result as long as you are hitting the same level in Satson. However, they are plugins, especially older plugins which can produce nasty clipping internally without telling you if you run them too hot. I assume Ableton's internal stuff is all coded competently but it's just a good practice to not run devices/plugins too hot. So I'd rather run the instrument at low levels and turn it up to 0db VU inside Satson as a rule of thumb.

You don't need that many instances of Satson inside a single channel. Just one instance of Satson channel before any further FX. You can make a default setting for mid/audio tracks which makes it easy. The bus thing is a bit of a creative choice, really. I always have one on my master and on send FX but other than that you don't necessarily need to group anything. Personally I like having three groups (Synths, Bass&Kick, Drums) with Satson Bus instances on each.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:57 pm 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Posts: 8
dubdub wrote:
In theory it shouldn't matter whether you turn up the level inside Operator or Satson, they should achieve the same result as long as you are hitting the same level in Satson. However, they are plugins, especially older plugins which can produce nasty clipping internally without telling you if you run them too hot. I assume Ableton's internal stuff is all coded competently but it's just a good practice to not run devices/plugins too hot. So I'd rather run the instrument at low levels and turn it up to 0db VU inside Satson as a rule of thumb.


Thanks for this, that's put my mind at rest!

dubdub wrote:
You don't need that many instances of Satson inside a single channel. Just one instance of Satson channel before any further FX. You can make a default setting for mid/audio tracks which makes it easy. The bus thing is a bit of a creative choice, really. I always have one on my master and on send FX but other than that you don't necessarily need to group anything. Personally I like having three groups (Synths, Bass&Kick, Drums) with Satson Bus instances on each.


Interesting.. so in this instance, an Ableton instrument rack that's made up of multiple operators, only needs one instance of Satson Channel after the rack (and NOT a separate instance of Satson channel for each operator + Satson Bus after the rack). Have i understood that correctly? Sorry to labour the point but it's slightly contradictory to other (albeit vague) advice i've read, so i just want to be 100% :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:03 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8948
Not sure I see the point of putting a satson bus directly after the plugins with satson channels, all essentially in the same channel.
Not how busses work.

Personally I would just have one satson channel after the instrument rack, and before any other plugins.

Buss plugs are generally best placed on busses (groups) sends and master channel.

Whenever I group stuff (which is quite a lot) then a bus plug goes on the group.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Some hard shit
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:20 am 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Posts: 8
Lost to the Void wrote:
Not sure I see the point of putting a satson bus directly after the plugins with satson channels, all essentially in the same channel.
Not how busses work.

Personally I would just have one satson channel after the instrument rack, and before any other plugins.

Buss plugs are generally best placed on busses (groups) sends and master channel.

Whenever I group stuff (which is quite a lot) then a bus plug goes on the group.


Hey, thanks for the assistance.. I think what confuses me is that everyone says that a satson channel must always go first on the effect chain. You can have multiple effect chains within a single ableton instrument rack, so wouldn't those chains need their own satson channel and isn't the rack now acting as a buss?

In my screenshot you can see I've popped Satson channels as the first effect on both of the chains in the instrument rack. Both chains have a delay after the operator, so my initial thinking was that I needed a satson before each delay.

Maybe I'm being really thick here or missing something completely obvious! I assure you, I'm not on a crusade to have loads of unnecessary satson channels (on the contrary, I want things as simple as possible!), though i just want to be sure that the advice is still to add the satson channel after a rack, even when the rack contains it's own effect chains :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:23 am 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8948
Well as it`s all ableton native stuff within the rack, it`s not really a rack, it`s one instrument.
No different to a hardware synth with built in effects that then runs in to a desk, at which point, the level is set.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Some hard shit
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:56 am 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Posts: 8
Ok, makes sense, thanks again :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:19 pm 
Offline
Smore
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:30 pm
Posts: 255
Location: Pittsburgh
This looks interesting. Gonna pick it and Void's limiter up at some point.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
skymiles v1.1 designed by CodeMiles Team -TemplatesDragon-.