Mix Bus Compression Guide

[dubdub]

I tend to stick to around 1db.

I'm curious, in the guide on page one you say the needle shouldn't hit zero. I've been finding that unless I use very long release settings, the needle tends to hit zero (or at least very close to zero, hard to tell sometimes ince the GUI isn't the biggest and the VU meter isn't super accurate, obviously) pretty regularily with less than 2db compression though.

[0dd]

I tend to stick to around 1db.

I'm curious, in the guide on page one you say the needle shouldn't hit zero. I've been finding that unless I use very long release settings, the needle tends to hit zero (or at least very close to zero, hard to tell sometimes ince the GUI isn't the biggest and the VU meter isn't super accurate, obviously) pretty regularily with less than 2db compression though.

That's weird I'm getting opposite results. Mk2, ratio 4, attack always seems to suit me around 8, and if I pull release above 1 it's compressing pretty constantly. I have to keep it under 1 to almost hit zero before the next kick. I also rarely get to 3db GR, it's usually between 1 and 2.

[dubdub]

Hmm, I never really dial the attack that far back.

[Lost to the Void]

I tend to stick to around 1db.

I'm curious, in the guide on page one you say the needle shouldn't hit zero. I've been finding that unless I use very long release settings, the needle tends to hit zero (or at least very close to zero, hard to tell sometimes ince the GUI isn't the biggest and the VU meter isn't super accurate, obviously) pretty regularily with less than 2db compression though.

The meter is accurate but it works to VU ballistics. I think it would be nice if you could switch it over to true peak or something, just for a quick check.
Essentially with the 2bus it's all about juggling the interplaying elements. The attack, release, threshold, ratio and side chain, until you dial in the action just right.
If you are hitting the needle stop between kicks then one of those elements or more needs adjusting. Odds are it is probably the side chain or release.... Or both.

These days, having really gotten to know the MJUC well, I have it swaying around to the beat sitting mainly at 0.5 on average, hitting 1db on big peaks and ducking to near zero occasionally, but mostly it sits at 0.5 and sways gently to the rhythm.

[0dd]

Hmm, I never really dial the attack that far back.

That's where the kick transient fully appears, atleast in my case. I pull the attack all the way up, then go down untill I hear the trainsient dissapearing and then just pull it back a bit.

[Lost to the Void]

Yeah, the transient occurs earlier, but the main punch portion of the kick sits back. I normally have quite a slow attack to let this all through.

[dubdub]

That makes sense, I'm usually not a fan of very attack-y kicks, that's probably why my attack times were always a bit shorter. I've been trying very slow attack times and it does make the needle a lot more stable in most cases I've tried. I guess because the comp isn't reacting to the kicks as much?

[Lost to the Void]

IT just means you aren`t stamping down on the transients and the punch of the track, so yeah the needle will be less jumpy

[psicomagia]

IT just means you aren`t stamping down on the transients and the punch of the track, so yeah the needle will be less jumpy

Steve, do you recommend any tutorials, books or videos that could lead to a better understanding on the subject (compression on mastering)?

Because with compression on the master I always have the impression that I'm missing something, either it's letting the GR higher than I should, or setting the release wrongly (which for me right now is one of the things that is still a bit hazy in my mind regarding compression: i.e. I know what it does and it's concept of how it works, I'm just having a hard time to fine tuning it right, or at least be sure of what I am doing). I mean, I was overcompressing shit and wasn't clearly noticing (I knew there was something wrong though), I was having like -3db of GR on my 2buss dynamic compressor and only noticed I was overcompressing after you replied my last post.

I mean, I really miss some material to study on this subject. Unfortunately not everyone has the oportunity to work inside a professional studio to learn directly from seasoned professionals, so the deeper it gets on the subjects, specially with mastering, the harder it gets to get decent specific info like we have here on the forums.

[Lost to the Void]

I don't think any book will explain master buss compression in more layman terms than I have already. Certainly not in mastering terms, as mastering literature tends to be overly technical.

Nothing will work right until you can actually hear what is happening.
You have to train your ears to hear what is going on, paying attention to the attack portion and transients of sounds across the mix, and how they change as you alter the compression attack. Same with the release, you need to recognise the relaxation of the sound as the release reduces the gain reduction.
Basically you just have to play around a lot.
If MJUC is difficult to get to grips with, being a mu compressor, then go with a very neutral compressor such as abeltons stock compressor, until you learn how to listen (which like fabfilters compressor, gives a visual graph of what is happening to the sound).
No amount of explanation will make your ears hear what is happening.

It does help to use good monitors with accurate dynamic response, and also to run them with a good amount of amplification headroom.

Remember we aren't really talking about mastering compression here, this is master bus compression for use at the mixing stage.

There is no way in hell I have the time to write about mastering compression as it becomes a lot more complicated as you are tackling different problems and are looking at achieving a number of different outcomes.

Lastly there are no books on mastering that really tackle specifics of the meat and veg stock processes. There are books that cover stuff specific to monitoring and format requirements, and lots of the very technical specifications of industry standards, but the very nature of mastering comes from doing the work. It really is something that can only be taught vocationally. You can't learn it from a book (or a college course)
There are videos, but videos don't give you experience.
The skills of mastering are exactly the same skills as in production, but they are fine tuned by experience, and aided by specific equipment and environment.

[0dd]

I've been wondering for a few days, Void you said NY compression is a no no on the master. How about saturation? I know it's also a form of compression so my logic is 100% wet with little to no drive instead of lots of drive with a bit of wetness. 5-10% is far from paralel so maybe it's not a problem. What say you?

[Lost to the Void]

Depends on the saturation really.
Saturation can add density and thicken a mix (which can lead to a mix ending up muddy and thick in the low mids)
IT will add a lot of harmonics which may or may not be desirable and may or may not disrupt the mix.
It will change the nature of transients which may or may not disrupt the mix.
You are effectively adding distortion, which can have all kinds of issues (positive and negative).

So basically it all depends on your understanding of what you are trying to achieve.
If you understand your saturation, you know what you are looking to achieve with it, and you know how to do so, then I don`t see a problem with it on the 2buss.
If you are just slapping it on the 2buss because sach-er-eyshun is goodz, then you might be causing yourself problems.


If you are going to do so, I would say do so right from the beginning of making the tune, so that you are mixing into it, and your mix is adjusted to get the best (and minimise the worst) effects of the saturation.

I`ve been doing a lot of experimentation with all kinds of saturation and distortion on the master over the last couple of years, both in production and mastering. It can be great, it can also ruin a mix. You can actually push it quite far, but you really need to have your technique locked down.

[Barfunkel]

I have no idea how they actually do it, but most of the so-called lofi house so en vogue these days often sounds like a really boring house track, with some lofi/saturation effects slapped on the 2bus. Like, without that it'd have like 15 soundcloud plays, mostly from their moms and with luck, their uncle too, but with the lofi/distortion it gets on LIES or Lobster Theremin vinyl and people rave about it like the second coming of Jesus Christ.

[Lost to the Void]

I would say a lot of that stuff the noise is by channel (or group buss) and not by the 2buss. Much easier to control, and to keep it punchy.
The telltale is how crisp and tight the hats are, using the latest lobster theremin for example, sounds to me like each individual element has a bit of noise and grit rather than the whole mix.

[0dd]

Well, in my current case it's decapitator with 1db drive in N mode. The rest is untouched. No hi nor lo pass and brightness at center. While trying different wetness levels I remembered your words about paralel comp on the 2bus hence the question.
What I know about saturation is that it adds harmonic content based on how much you drive the input, making the spectrum richer which can in turn mask or completely destroy the transients depending on how much you drive it. Suppose there's a lot more to it than that but that's the basics right?

[0dd]

Bump

[Lost to the Void]

Decapitator on the 2buss is not the best thing
You get quite a bit of very low end distortion that you need to look out for, or control (a case where multiband compression might help prior to saturation).
More subtle plugins such as black rooster audio preamps or something, do better for the master mix.

Saying that I did an ep (one of my aliases) where I rinsed the shit out of decapitator and radiator on the master buss, made stringent use of the wet/dry and tuned the sound prior to hitting the distortion.
And it worked, I was basically trying to make something that was utterly demolished but at the same time completely coherent and punchy.
Took a lot of work to get that to work.
I've done it with hardware FX too.

Anything goes, it helps to understand what is happening though, what the repurcussions are etc
When you run a big broad signal through distortion (saturation is distortion) such as doing it on the master buss, then pre EQ can help control the behaviour of the distortion. In some cases pre compression too.
There is a lot of juggling and fiddling to get it right.

Maybe it's something I should do a little production guide/inspiration springboard about in a new thread.

[0dd]

Thanks for the clarification. Your guides are always welcome!

[nomadjames]

This has really helped...Thanks Void!

[DZM]

Many thanks for this, feel like using this has finally helped me mixing better using compression, so many thanks for that (and much more learning to do for me obviously).
Speaking on compressors, there is a decent sea available from McDSP on the 6030 ultimate compressor which gives you 8 compressors for something around 25 euro. I have been trying them and like them so far (Stark improvement over Reason stock devices).
Cheers,
Erik