Arranging percussive techno

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SFBM
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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by SFBM »

dubdub wrote:FUCK ARRANGEMENT. IT IS THE DEVIL. The idealized notion of perfected techno is the closed to being actualized when it's just an endless one bar loop, going forever and ever without changing anything. It reminds me of the medieval notion that god is outside of time, there's no past, present and future, only a single moment. When you start adding linearity to time you shit all over your divine techno and make it stinky, human and corrupt. All my best tracks never get out of the loop stage because when you have a "perfect" loop, you can only make it worse by doing arrangement.

However, of course, just like Adam and Eva eventually get kicked out of the paradise, we are inevitably foced to bastardize our pure loops into these disgusting 5, 6 or twelve minutes chunks of audio. Since at that point, you are already partaking in heretic activity, I recommend not thinking about it too much - just jam it, just like a torturer is jamming a torch up some poor guys ass. The worst thing you can do is pushing around blocks in Ableton, at that point you are enganging in entirely rationalized, high tech destruction of innocent loops - Yes, drawing blocks in Ableton is the Auschwitz of techno production.
That was a rollercoaster of a read :lol: but some sage advice there!

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Amøbe »

The way i go about arrangement from a theoretical point of view is to view Robert Hood and Plastikman's early releases. They can both still work as a blueprint to understand the structure of most contemporary techno releases.

So just short: Plastikman seemed to jam his tracks down. It's reminiscent of some of Philip Glass' compositions (can't remember the exact ones of the top of my head) where he would write instructions in the sheets along the lines of "proceed to next movement, when it feels right" (or something). This way of composing seem to give a more inward feel of the songs, where the purpose of the song might be to encapsule you in an atmosphere and sort-of "move you around the object" (object = the small melodies, the sounds etc. becomes musical objects through their repetitions, modulations and processings). I see a pretty clear trace from this compositional method to artists like Varg, Shifted and Rrose these days.

Robert Hood said that he wanted to research the science of moving your ass. His minimal techno tracks are - however repetitious they are - somewhat strict in their arrangments. A lot of them seem to be a "slave of the loop" - by this I mean that there is usually drastic changes every 8th or 16th bar. A lot of the tracks do this so formally that you can begin to anticipate the changes, and where Plastikman was inward this very much have a direct outward dictating effect on the dancers. A song like "Enter" from Antigone does this a lot, where a change in the arrangment is very often after a 16-bar period. youtu.be/A6wD_6_2g-w

I hope you can use these small analysis to something. I try to be aware of what I want with what I'm making, and it can be a tool for going in a either ambient/meditational direction or a more tool/ass-shaking direction.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by ▇ ▇ ▇ »

Nice to get concrete examples, albeit diverse, what people see/hear as good structures. Obviously there a multiple right paths to go about it.

This is a arrangement that works well in a set more times than not:

youtu.be/tDsTXD1-J2M

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by juxtpose »

seems to me unless its a classic house type style best not to think about arranging, just kinda feel your way round it, the style so minimal that a forced arrangement could tend to make it lose the vibe, unless you are looking at it from a maths point of view, that could force you to arrange better if loops of varying time are playing

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by L8Night »

The_G wrote:The thing I struggle with is transitions. Hate to rely on risers and that kind of shit.

But the current track is actually turning out pretty good.
that's the fun part , reversing weird sounds and adding reverbs/delays with some panning automation makes for some awesome builds... the generic hats/snare builds are something to stay away from for sure

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by ▇ ▇ ▇ »

dubdub is very close to the truth but as he so splendidly put we eventually get kicked out from the paradise and in a sense are forced to face this questions of pre-made structures in tracks. And when it comes down to that, a good structural composition can make or break a track.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by MattAltmanMusic »

For me arrangement can be crucial. I always start with drums, but things can change based off of what my ear is hearing at the time. My initial arrangement is based off of what sound or drum can fit where and when it makes the most sense, and then I go back and fix it and change and swap. Arrangement for me is where natural tension can come in handy... Timing is everything.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Prophän »

I think that the ideal way it is to just jam it a first time to layout the basic structure and just do it as you feel it, then later record automations for the synths and enveloppes , then do a third take where you record the automation of your effects . But I don't do that, yet..

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Críoch »

Been listening to bits & pieces that I've recorded a long time ago. They're just snippets of things that I've saved into sets as a guide (if) when I go back to them.

Its difficult to describe in words, though everyone should understand what I'm trying to say.. but some of the loopier stuff has a riff - or collection of sounds that kinda remain as a motif.. in the scale.. rather than develop into a series of verse / chorus type structure. Its looping back on itself as opposed to having sections.

Some of the recordings have that vibe where you could easily put a 4 note pad or string under it & the music would drive along because its so repetitive. You get the idea. Anyway.. that stuff doesnt sound half bad when jammed into an arrangement. Every channel has its own fader or filter & you bring things up or down. I guess thats what you see advised sometimes; putting your loop in the middle of the arrange, where everything is going to be 'in' & you work back to the start from there. Same idea..

..and probably the reason why its a challenge to 'block out' an arrangement of such loops, as they go against the verse / chorus structure. I reckon that I regularly forget about that, get frustrated & move on. Oh dear.. :mrgreen:
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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Cloaked »

Bit late to this topic, just wanted to say that I've moved almost entirely to the approach mentioned earlier - get a perfect sounding loop then paste it over 6 minutes, then start chipping away at it.

When you try to build it up the other way, I find you start trying to "save" elements in reserve that you're "proud" of, but those make the track what it is. Don't hide them away, build around them.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by bounduk »

Amøbe wrote: So just short: Plastikman seemed to jam his tracks down. It's reminiscent of some of Philip Glass' compositions (can't remember the exact ones of the top of my head) where he would write instructions in the sheets along the lines of "proceed to next movement, when it feels right" (or something). This way of composing seem to give a more inward feel of the songs, where the purpose of the song might be to encapsule you in an atmosphere and sort-of "move you around the object" (object = the small melodies, the sounds etc. becomes musical objects through their repetitions, modulations and processings). I see a pretty clear trace from this compositional method to artists like Varg, Shifted and Rrose these days.
I need to get into arranging this way. I imagine it's a little easier to do with a hardware setup where you can just play with each machine independently. Any recommendations for doing this 'inside the box'? I imagine there's some midi controllers for Ableton that would be handy but I'm a Logic 9 user (though slowly trying to learn how to transfer over to Ableton...). I'd be quite keen to drop some money on a controller that means I'm able to just kind of leave the laptop running in the background and do most of my work using the knobs/pads/etc etc from a controller.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Críoch »

Was watching a video last night with a guy using able tons push 2. The video wasn't about push.. but I thought it looked pretty hands on. Not sure what it's like in terms of mapping the volumes or cut off from 5 individual tracks to the dials.. but it looks pretty bad ass regarding able tonight integration. I can see what the fuss is about.

Regardless.. and midi controller connrcted to live can be mapped to your custom wish. Able tonight is great livlke that. There are the behringer bcr & bcf.. akai apc 20 & 40.. all going for fair prices 2nd hand.. akai have new versions out also. A mix of faders, buttons & knobs is ideal.
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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by bounduk »

Críoch wrote:Was watching a video last night with a guy using able tons push 2. The video wasn't about push.. but I thought it looked pretty hands on. Not sure what it's like in terms of mapping the volumes or cut off from 5 individual tracks to the dials.. but it looks pretty bad ass regarding able tonight integration. I can see what the fuss is about.

Regardless.. and midi controller connrcted to live can be mapped to your custom wish. Able tonight is great livlke that. There are the behringer bcr & bcf.. akai apc 20 & 40.. all going for fair prices 2nd hand.. akai have new versions out also. A mix of faders, buttons & knobs is ideal.
Yeah I've seen the Push 2 before, I think the look of it puts me off more than anything, a big slab full of pads and it reminds me of those kinda videos where someone will play like a Skrillex song 'live' by triggering it sample by sample or whatever they do.
The BCR looks a little more 'up my street', although I do always wonder what the build quality is like with Behringer :P
The Akai thing looks really nice too, I might try and give one a go if I can get to a shop that has one kicking about. Cheers for the suggestions.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Críoch »

Hahaha.. fair play deciphering the spellchecker errors there :)
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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Críoch »

I think the BCR is well regarded. Still goes for good money 2nd hand. Always snapped up quickly.. so worth a punt.

I guess one of the strengths of push is the screen.. giving the name of the selected parameter/ plug in.. and value. Pretty cool.
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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by bounduk »

Críoch wrote:I think the BCR is well regarded. Still goes for good money 2nd hand. Always snapped up quickly.. so worth a punt.

I guess one of the strengths of push is the screen.. giving the name of the selected parameter/ plug in.. and value. Pretty cool.
Haha, it did throw me off at first with whatever it corrected Ableton to!
I'll have a look at secondhand prices. Tbh, I might have been a bit quick to judge the Push. The Push 1 looks horrible but the Push 2 looks a lot sleeker. The most painful thing about moving from Logic to Ableton (besides, yknow, changing your entire workflow and learning new keyboard shortcuts lol) is the amount of channel settings, effects chains and sampler instruments etc etc that I've saved into Logic to speed up my workflow over the years.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by Críoch »

I feel like able tonight..

------------------

Quick to judge? Me too.. I'd never really considered push before, but it does look great. Doubt you'd be limited to just using one midi controller with it, so would be best of both worlds.

Bitch about the channel strips.. but it's an opportunity to do new stuff & ableton is a lot more flexible with its equivalent: racks. You can assign macros to synthetic & fx.. do parallel chains.. and make a wet/ dry control. Super quick to do also. Kicks logics ass that way :)

One thing that i think ableton lacks over logic are the shortcut options. Sure most are covered & you can key assign stuff ( uppercase & lowercase are separate levels that you can assign - pretty flexible).. but it's annoying that there's no 'crop' shortcut. Logic spoils you in that regard! Grrr :mrgreen:
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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by bounduk »

Críoch wrote: One thing that i think ableton lacks over logic are the shortcut options. Sure most are covered & you can key assign stuff ( uppercase & lowercase are separate levels that you can assign - pretty flexible).. but it's annoying that there's no 'crop' shortcut. Logic spoils you in that regard! Grrr :mrgreen:
Haha I know the Logic keyboard shortcuts like the back of my hand (been using Logic 9 for about 5 years, FL and Reason before that) and sometimes even find myself trying to use them in other programs!
But I'm very keen on wanting to get a bit more 'out the box' and hands on in respect of kinda jamming and writing tunes semi-live without having to drop a few grand on a Eurorack system, a couple of drum machines + all the effects, compressors etc and it seems like Ableton is way more open ended as far as controller compatibility goes.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by over9000 »

in my oppinion the whole controler thing is a bit overrated. i never even use my midi keyboard lol. Ok i do, but just for recording midi notes, that i change later in clip view anyway. I can imagine, that push is a nice thing to have, but you can easily do it without it. I think iam more of a mouse + keyboard person, as i always use those, even if i could use the midi keyboards knobs and faders when i want to.
But lately i tried playing an arrangement in from abletons session view, and for that a controller like push might be really handy.

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Re: Arranging percussive techno

Post by intrusav »

That surely has to qualify as a new Subsekt status - "Able Tonight"


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