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Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:21 pm
by arkos
Lost to the Void wrote:Problem with sonarworks is that it does nothing for time domain. It`s a band aid over a knife wound unless used in conjunction with room treatment.
It's still better then nothing.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:40 pm
by Root
I went through the whole process of getting informed, planning, measuring and rearranging my room. I ended up with using my furniture as acoustic elements and some monitor stands to tune the best positioning. After that it seemed like i have to invest a lot in panels and traps and quit living in my room to get anything better. Now i'm using Sonarworks and it feels like i have way more a picture of whats happening in the bass area and low mids than before. It's really no perfect solution, but as a part of several small steps towards better acoustics it can help.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:41 pm
by dubdub
arkos wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:Problem with sonarworks is that it does nothing for time domain. It`s a band aid over a knife wound unless used in conjunction with room treatment.
It's still better then nothing.
Depends on the room. IMO it doesn't cope very well with shit rooms and makes huge adjustments that sound very unnatural. ~10db EQ boosts and cuts on the master are never going to sound particularily good and will introduce all sorts of problems.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:09 pm
by Lost to the Void
dubdub wrote:
arkos wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:Problem with sonarworks is that it does nothing for time domain. It`s a band aid over a knife wound unless used in conjunction with room treatment.
It's still better then nothing.
Depends on the room. IMO it doesn't cope very well with shit rooms and makes huge adjustments that sound very unnatural. ~10db EQ boosts and cuts on the master are never going to sound particularily good and will introduce all sorts of problems.
This basically, you are just trading one set of problems for another.
I`d rather get used to a bad room than deal with the weirdness introduced by EQ`s.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:07 pm
by arkos
Lost to the Void wrote:
dubdub wrote:

Depends on the room. IMO it doesn't cope very well with shit rooms and makes huge adjustments that sound very unnatural. ~10db EQ boosts and cuts on the master are never going to sound particularily good and will introduce all sorts of problems.
This basically, you are just trading one set of problems for another.
I`d rather get used to a bad room than deal with the weirdness introduced by EQ`s.
Lmfao.... I'll post this pic I posted on last page, again... Good luck mixing in the room on the left without it...

Image

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:52 pm
by Lost to the Void
Yeah I'd rather not have 10db of gain placed on a low frequency band sitting over my 2 buss. EQ artefacts a-go-go.

Like I said, trading one problem for another.
Simple room treatment to clear up big problems like that crucial 10db 80hz null, which is essentially a room node, and therefore a time domain issue, with added complications of a similar amplitude but positive spike at 145hz, would be much better, and then using sonar works to tune up what's left. But screw having an EQ doing essentially 20db of medium q adjustment all in a very crucial time response area of the low end, sitting over the 2 buss.
I mean, any mastering engineer sent a tune with low end issues like that, is not going to try to fix that problem with EQ. You are introducing too many problems, that's a return to sender, please fix the mix, amount of adjustment.

Anything that puts an amount of EQ over the 2 buss I wouldn't do myself is not something I want to trust cheers.

Also, in those images above, the wide mid range tilt centred at around 1100k hasn't been dealt with at all. Bizarro.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:17 am
by arkos
That is just the frequency response of the room's not the Eq correction applied....

And I've pretty much always gotten praise for the sound of my stuff after starting to use Sonarworks in that room on the left it was total nightmare to do anything in there before it, next to impossible.

It sounds like to me that you think I'm exporting my mixes with the Eq correction active... :D

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:01 am
by Lost to the Void
I know full well how sonar works operates man, I tested it myself and was unimpressed. It was nonbetter than the RMC on my old JBL LSR monitors.
Actually I think the filters sonarworks uses are worse for artefacts as the JBL RMC was calibrated specifically for its own speaker performance.

So my point applies, you are getting EQ artefacts on the monitoring output, which quite frankly if it were a mix, no engineer would do (in the case of your first room which required massive changes to deal with), so why have it sitting there adjusting audio as you listen to it?
To me, that's crazyness. You are listening to an EQ all the time, and not the clean master channel (bar for your own intended processing).

Ok as a fine tuning tool when you have dealt with your basic room issues, ie nodes, comb filtering, flutter echo etc. All the time domain problems. But it's no substitute for even basic room treatment. EQing typical low end room problems without dealing with the time domain side of it (and in fact adding to time domain issues), means you are never really clear on phase, transients, punch, release times etc.

I mean I agree if your room is truly aweful, then it might be better than nothing. I remain unconvinced, and returned my sonarworks for a refund.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:21 pm
by dubdub
I tried Sonarworks for a bit and my correction curve looked a bit like your room curve. Huge db swings. I did not feel like it made the lowend any clearer or easier to hear and it made the mix sound kind of filtered, which is obviously bound to happen if you have ~20db swings with EQ applied. So for me it was worse than nothing.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:42 pm
by Mattias
The only time DRC is relevant is when the room is (very) well treated. The trick is to only let it dip a few dB in the lows.
Software like Dirac and Acourate are better to use then Sonarworks.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:46 pm
by Lost to the Void
Oh yeah acourate is definitely better.
Dirac, providing it's not the mobile phone version, also has a good reputation, though I have never tried it, apparently it deals with time domain quite well.. They are building it in to some high end amps now.
Andrew Jones developed a similar system to one of Elacs high end amps too.
He's also designed some amazing speakers for them.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:04 pm
by Squill
I was going to get this a while back, but yea as said before, works well if your room is already treated, if not, just trading one problem for another. On the other hand, anyone try this out with the headphones Sonarworks recommends? I'm looking into getting a new pair of cans.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:35 am
by Patch77
Ive got the reference 3 package with the microphone that tunes your monitors to your room also..



It fantastic.

Re: Sonarworks

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:13 pm
by acesd619
I have the headphones version and was pleased with the results. The plugin isn't very useful to me anymore because I know my cans better now. That said, it would be useful if I had to suddenly start using different cans for whatever reason.

Honestly I think the Tonal Balance plug (iZotope) with a custom reference curve is more useful to me but that is a matter of practicality and an entirely different topic. Give me some ear buds from a gum ball machine though and I can do my best to make it work. Real recognize real.