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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Planar wrote:
I've just added you to my cunt list :lol:


Fair enough, and I have only myself to blame :D

Lost to the Void wrote:
That's actually the one aspect of this software I give no credence too. The speaker emulation just seems a bit snake oil to me. Speakers are more than an EQ curve. It's a completely different theory. Trying to emulate a larger quantity of air movement inside headphones with small air movement and enclosures.... I just don't trust it.

For example, trying to emulate the operation of a high velocity ribbon tweeter within a standard coil driver within headphones, not going to happen.


I agree with you completely and when buying the plugin I disregarded the speaker calibration completely thinking it was some marketing bullshit.

I don't really use the speaker emulation when using cans but rather when using monitors.
I just think it's nice to be able to switch to "another set" of speakers just to hear how it sounds for a second.
I know it's just a Eq boost and could be done with any Eq plugin but I think it's just nice to have it all accessible within one plugin.

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:54 pm 
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arkos wrote:
Planar wrote:


I agree with you completely and when buying the plugin I disregarded the speaker calibration completely thinking it was some marketing bullshit.

I don't really use the speaker emulation when using cans but rather when using monitors.
I just think it's nice to be able to switch to "another set" of speakers just to hear how it sounds for a second.
I know it's just a Eq boost and could be done with any Eq plugin but I think it's just nice to have it all accessible within one plugin.


It's very useful to be able to switch between speaker emulations like that. It may not be 100% accurate representation, but it's close enough to be very useful for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 12:57 pm 
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Yesterday downloaded the demo. It really works with my dt 880 pro /As I understand it, after the expiration of 21 days calibration function is still available?


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:00 pm 
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:shock: It's incredible. Very useful! :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:36 pm 
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Kostyam wrote:
:shock: It's incredible. Very useful! :shock:


That's exactly my experience as well :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:07 am 
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So I'm currently demoing sonarworks speaker calibration and it seems like a cool application. It certainly is doing something which seems to sound good to me but I would like to find a way to actually test the end result of how much it is really flattening things out...

It's hard for me to tell if it's actually flattening things significantly or if I'm just responding to the fact that it is doing something and there is a clear difference. it could be making things less flat for all I know...

I would like to send a sin sweep through the plugin with filters on then record the actual room response and see what it's doing. I was able to download a sin sweep tone and have some recordingss with the filter on/off and a through a couple different calibrations but I don't know how to set up a graph to really view the results.

Is there any application that would be helpful in plotting the audio recordings into frequency/spl? similar to the room eq wizard plots... I wish there was a simple way I could think of to run room eq wizard through the sonarworks plugin in ableton... any ideas?

just trying to decide if it's actually worth it to spend ~300 for the sonarworks bundle with calibrated mic


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:29 am 
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so I was able to figure out a way to route the room eq wizard output through ableton. I was just using a demo of loopback that was on a timer and ran a few quick tests of room eq wizard with sonarworks on and off

Image

red is with the plugin disabled, purple enabled.

as I suspected it's not doing as much as you would hope from looking at the pretty inverse eq curve it shows in the plugin... it does seem to smooth out the high mids/highs decently though which is what I did notice most. I guess it is improving everything else slightly as well.

and here's what it's trying to do: Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:29 pm 
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That's not a bad result.
There are too many variables to expect a room correction and speaker correction programme to give perfect results.
The better your room treatment the better the results you will get.
I would treat it as a fine tuning tool to get a reasonably treated room a little better, rather than an untreated room cured.

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:39 pm 
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Yeah I'm not expecting any miracles from it.

I'm in a rental and I just put in about as much treatment as I reasonably can in my living room space. If anything this confirms I'll probably buy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Been interested in the headphone app for a while from what I've read online and after this thread so downloaded the trial yesterday... not sure what to say, definitely seems to improve the low end clarity, adds more bass extension. But it really really dulls the hi end way too much imo, something can't be right... Listening on DT880 and comparing with my A77x. Anyone else with experiences with DT880?


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:46 pm 
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msl wrote:
But it really really dulls the hi end way too much imo, something can't be right...
.


Mix in ca 80% of the original signal to get a bit more high :D

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:55 pm 
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msl wrote:
Been interested in the headphone app for a while from what I've read online and after this thread so downloaded the trial yesterday... not sure what to say, definitely seems to improve the low end clarity, adds more bass extension. But it really really dulls the hi end way too much imo, something can't be right... Listening on DT880 and comparing with my A77x. Anyone else with experiences with DT880?


.


The app doesn't take in account of ear canal size which can have quite a differing effect on high end response, especially using cans.
Also the rise I low end might go e the illusion of dull high end.
Takes a while for your ears to get used to changes in monitoring.

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:30 am 
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msl wrote:
Been interested in the headphone app for a while from what I've read online and after this thread so downloaded the trial yesterday... not sure what to say, definitely seems to improve the low end clarity, adds more bass extension. But it really really dulls the hi end way too much imo, something can't be right... Listening on DT880 and comparing with my A77x. Anyone else with experiences with DT880?


.


Yep, pretty much my experience with it, but I get no difference in bass clarity, it's just a bit louder down there. Look at the EQ curve it applies and it's a small low-end bump and fairly sharp dip around the higher end- hence the sound. It hasn't improved my mixing, I'm just too used to my 880's by now.

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:59 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Also the rise I low end might go e the illusion of dull high end.


Yes I realize this is playing a role.

Planar wrote:
Yep, pretty much my experience with it, but I get no difference in bass clarity, it's just a bit louder down there. Look at the EQ curve it applies and it's a small low-end bump and fairly sharp dip around the higher end- hence the sound. It hasn't improved my mixing, I'm just too used to my 880's by now.


OK louder or more tight I'm not sure yet. Yes I can see the 2 big dips, and hear them obviously. But yeah even with it at 80% it's dull as fuck, not sure what to make of the whole thing, as I trust my montiors and the hi-end is just way off, low end is more realistic. I guess my point is "I wanted to believe" and I might have to mix on headphones for the next 2 months so was hoping this would be a magic bullet hahahahaha. I just can't believe its right with those 2 big dips when comparing to my Adams...

Also I'm not really happy with the 880's and want to change but lack the funds atm so that was another reason. I have a pair of ATH M50's need to try with those and see what it does.


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:20 pm 
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msl wrote:

OK louder or more tight I'm not sure yet. Yes I can see the 2 big dips, and hear them obviously. But yeah even with it at 80% it's dull as fuck, not sure what to make of the whole thing, as I trust my montiors and the hi-end is just way off, low end is more realistic. I guess my point is "I wanted to believe" and I might have to mix on headphones for the next 2 months so was hoping this would be a magic bullet hahahahaha. I just can't believe its right with those 2 big dips when comparing to my Adams...

Also I'm not really happy with the 880's and want to change but lack the funds atm so that was another reason. I have a pair of ATH M50's need to try with those and see what it does.


.


Take a look at waves NX if you've not already had chance. I use adam a77x and dt 990's and my mix downs definitely improved using nx. I'll be demoing sonarworks this pm for definite.

If you have the cash (£1K) you could look at the SPL phonitor which is meant to be unreal for improving headphone imaging.

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:16 pm 
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msl wrote:
I guess my point is "I wanted to believe" and I might have to mix on headphones for the next 2 months so was hoping this would be a magic bullet hahahahaha. I just can't believe its right with those 2 big dips when comparing to my Adams...

Also I'm not really happy with the 880's and want to change but lack the funds atm so that was another reason. I have a pair of ATH M50's need to try with those and see what it does.


880's need amping properly, but once they are they translate really well in my experience. I would sack off Sonarworks, listen to a shit load of music through which ever cans you choose and just get used to them. A spectrum analyzer on the master is useful to ensure you're not doing anything screwy. The only effect I'd stick on your master is something like Redline monitor (Steve mentioned another variant earlier in this thread, Isone(?)), which does make a huge difference to how you monitor panned sounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:03 pm 
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still havent decided if I want to bother with the headphone plugin or not. I think I'll definitely get the monitor cal plugin.

I can get the monitor cal plugin for $180. Or for $300 both plugins and an individually calibrated reference mic. right now I'm using a behringer ecm8000 which is a decent cal mic (the sonarworks mic honestly looks identical and might be) but I only have a generic calibration file for it and it might be nice to have a mic that is individually calibrated to remove that variable. hard to say how close the ecm8000 is with no cal file or the generic one, might not be much of a difference.

the headphone plugin is kind of a bonus at that point for like $20-$40 more since I would mostly get the bundle for the mic.

ive only demoed the headphone plugin with my sony 7506s and it sounds alright but I'm not crazy about those phones to begin with. I have some akg k701s on the way so I guess I'll see how they sound with and without it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:59 pm 
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Planar wrote:
880's need amping properly, but once they are they translate really well in my experience. I would sack off Sonarworks, listen to a shit load of music through which ever cans you choose and just get used to them. A spectrum analyzer on the master is useful to ensure you're not doing anything screwy. The only effect I'd stick on your master is something like Redline monitor (Steve mentioned another variant earlier in this thread, Isone(?)), which does make a huge difference to how you monitor panned sounds.



Well after fiddling with the bass and tilt which helps, and with it at 75% its a bit better, continually cross checking against the Adams to get it closer. It's an improvement and will do for the 2 months I'll be monitor less I guess.

Not too keen on spectrum analyzers, I prefer to mix with my ears rather than my eyes ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:09 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
After testing a shit load of phones I ended up with AKG701's


So what did you think of the newer ones the 712's or the 702 even did you try those? I was always a AKG user, had 240's for years and years then 271's, and rather like the 'bass lite' aspect.


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 Post subject: Re: Sonarworks
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:27 am 
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702's are the same as 701's just with aesthetic differences and the removable cable.

712 was not accurate in the lows. It was bass heavy, good for djing perhaps.

I don't find the 701 bass lite just bass accurate, tight.
I actually take mine up in to the mastering room occasionally when I am going for a saturated sound as it really helps to get the bass close and clear to the ear to check if I am overdoing it.

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