subsekt

I've been listening to this for the past week or so.

Trying to listen to it in terms of production that is. Here's a clip





Quality wise, to me, it seems to be better than a lot of stuff I'm listening to atm.

There was a thread about how people use a mix engineer, especially dnb artists

Questions - 1 is it as well produced as I think it is?

2- Is this a case of producer/ mix engineer?

3 - Is it really as hard to achieve a mix like this as I imagine (I'm thinking a good decade here)

jordanneke wrote: There was a thread about how people use a mix engineer, especially dnb artists

I think this statement applied to the 90is when a lot of DnB was produced in proper studios...

jordanneke wrote: 3 - Is it really as hard to achieve a mix like this as I imagine (I'm thinking a good decade here)

Hard to tell if it's hard. Keep in mind: DnB people love parallel processing, layering and separating elements. What you really want to do, is get your headroom and your dynamics of each element right. It usually involves really subtle processing steps, but many of them.

In the mixing engineer thread I said that to me mixing is part of the creative process… I think DnB is a perfect example for this, because you could not produce something like that without knowing a thing about mixing.

Thanks.

I guess I have to learn A LOT MORE about mixing then.

Guess I don't need vitamin D from sunshine anyway

I learned a great deal from producing dnb for many years. The overly technical and almost scientific approach to making music is very common there. But yeah mix engineers are or at least were fairly common in dnb. I'm not familiar with Mikal, but those are released on Metalheadz which is one label that has used them. Maybe you'll find this video interesting. (Studio stuff starts around 10 minutes in.)

youtu.be/ulUgqzF3HAI

jordanneke wrote:I've been listening to this for the past week or so.

Trying to listen to it in terms of production that is. Here's a clip





Quality wise, to me, it seems to be better than a lot of stuff I'm listening to atm.

There was a thread about how people use a mix engineer, especially dnb artists

Questions - 1 is it as well produced as I think it is?

2- Is this a case of producer/ mix engineer?

3 - Is it really as hard to achieve a mix like this as I imagine (I'm thinking a good decade here)

1: It's about an average profiessional level I would say, nothing that makes me think "wow" but nothing that makes me think it needs work either. So is it produced as well as you think? i don't know, it depends what you are comparing it too. It's not big studio good, but its above average small studio level.

2: Possibly maybe, not necessarily.

3: Hard is quite subjective..,, I don't think so, but it depends on the source material you are working with (from a mix engineers perspective). Yes it does take a good deal of experience to get to this level but it is entirely possible with a reasonable setup (DAW and good monitors with treated room, and/or a decent hardware setup with good desk).

DnB has a certain mentality and fairly consistent product, but it's not necessary to have such punchy productions. Sure, it's cool for tracks to stand out in the club, but I find that there is too much music that follows production "rules" well and has a solid mix down but lacks anything more than derivative musical ideas. Genres like DnB rely on structures/formulas like having highly separated drum arrangements, basslines that only play certain notes, etc that make it possible to more easily have such punchy mix downs. I would much rather listen to more interesting stuff that doesn't have such consistent standards.

Mikals production doesn't stand out particularly in the sea he's swimming in, but the mastering probably cost a lot considering it's a Metalheadz track. This type of techy DnB does leave a lot of space for elements to breathe, but he's done a good job making each of the elements stand on its own. It's a fairly decent album, actually.

terly wrote:Genres like DnB rely on structures/formulas like having highly separated drum arrangements, basslines that only play certain notes, etc that make it possible to more easily have such punchy mix downs. I would much rather listen to more interesting stuff that doesn't have such consistent standards.

This is the worst thing I've ever read on Subsekt. DnB does not have standards that dictate what notes are played or how elements should fit together. DnB does have a collective mentality that has ensured 99% of the people making it are trying to push production standards. Basically it generally sounds well produced, because it is. None of these guys are knocking tracks out in an hour and calling it done, they put a lot of effort into it. It also doesn't have the huge hipster element that techno currently suffers from; so no-one is wanking over an unprocessed kick drum just because it came out of a 30 year old analog drum machine. Certain sub-genres of it are almost a circle-jerk about how far things can be processed, and it can sound as robotic and soul-less as that sounds. Other sub-genres are fairly raw. Others jazzy. Others techy. Others shiny and poppy with vocals. Others minimal. Others deep etc.

It's a big genre (almost a microcosm of all the 4x4 sub genres) and misinformed, sweeping generalizations are doing it a huge disservice and make it sound like you've listened to 5 records on RAM before making your mind up.

That was a bit sweeping.
Basslines only play certain notes?????

It's not the first time I've read such a claim. I've heard people say they prefer writing dance music in certain keys, because of the frequency of the tonic. If it's too high or low, it won't have maximum impact on a club PA.

Absolutely no idea about the credibility of such claims, don't shoot the messenger!

I've heard/believe that as well, but it applies to every genre, Barfunkel. I own a lot of DnB, it's as diverse musically as every other electronic genre, perhaps more so as it can steal wholesale from house/techno/hiphop/jazz yet still always be unmistakably DnB. Every track having the same notes in the bassline is just pure bollocks.

It is quiet common to use notes between E1 and A1 for your sub bass as these will usually hit the most on a PA. However it’s not a rule, it’s just something to be aware of…

Resin wrote:It is quiet common to use notes between E1 and A1 for your sub bass as these will usually hit the most on a PA. However it’s not a rule, it’s just something to be aware of…

erm.....
80-110 hz
E1 doesn`t hit very hard at all. I wouldn`t say that is common at all.

With drum and bass at least, you get a lot more from say 45hz up to 80hz
You start getting that chest impact at C1.

Isn't E1 41 hz? And C1 about 33?

Ok, I am sorry about my sweeping generalization about DnB. I love lots of it. I spent many years reading DoA and found there was a dominant mentality about production that can be useful but is ultimately maybe not the right goal. I guess the argument that most DnB is formulaic can be used against any genre, but I guess my experience of it in general is that it sounds overproduced to me most of the time. I guess I am also a hipster who likes unprocessed drum machines though.

terly wrote:Isn't E1 41 hz? And C1 about 33?

Ok, I am sorry about my sweeping generalization about DnB. I love lots of it. I spent many years reading DoA and found there was a dominant mentality about production that can be useful but is ultimately maybe not the right goal. I guess the argument that most DnB is formulaic can be used against any genre, but I guess my experience of it in general is that it sounds overproduced to me most of the time. I guess I am also a hipster who likes unprocessed drum machines though.

Yes, you are right, I`m an octave up, damn japanese midi charts, I have a fucking carnegie hall frequency chart on the wall, why am I not looking at that

terly wrote:Isn't E1 41 hz? And C1 about 33?

Ok, I am sorry about my sweeping generalization about DnB. I love lots of it. I spent many years reading DoA and found there was a dominant mentality about production that can be useful but is ultimately maybe not the right goal. I guess the argument that most DnB is formulaic can be used against any genre, but I guess my experience of it in general is that it sounds overproduced to me most of the time. I guess I am also a hipster who likes unprocessed drum machines though.

DOA is generally preoccupied with neuro, a sub genre of dnb completely on its arse and one that values production over all. As useful as the place is (I lurk there a lot), it shouldn't be used to judge the genre. If you like quality dnb check out Samurai records and its sublabels, listen to some ASC, Narratives records, 31 recordings, Exit, Cylon & CX records. It's not over produced, its credible, musically interesting and there is a heavy techno influence.

Samurai is awesome. Its right on the edge of not being drum and bass.
Like all the good techno is almost not techno.

This sounds like the typical good standard of DnB mixing quality. As Planar said it's pretty sparse in terms of elements (not in a negative way). It actually reminds me of old Ed Rush and Optical era stuff.
Personally I think the amen based DnB is a better example of DnB standard of mixing.

Complains about basslines only playing certain notes... doesn't notice techno putting a kick on every beat.

innovine wrote:Complains about basslines only playing certain notes... doesn't notice techno putting a kick on every beat.

Shhhh keep it down man, people might notice.

innovine wrote:Complains about basslines only playing certain notes... doesn't notice techno putting a kick on every beat.

Don't forget the bassline that's just the kick with reverb on it.

Lost to the Void wrote:Samurai is awesome. Its right on the edge of not being drum and bass.
Like all the good techno is almost not techno.

Best label around, imo.