Overrated and overpriced gear

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
The_G
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Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by The_G »

On that dumbass gearhead I've mentioned, people really like hardware VA synths. So much that many of them have paid nearly $3k for the Access Virus Ti2. It's not a bad synth, mind you, but that's a steep price for something that doesn't even sound as good as Diva.

That made me think: what's some other gear that you think is overrated and overpriced?

Martin
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Martin »

Im not a hardware person, so im talking a bit out of my ass, but everything thats not being used i would consider overrated and overpriced. If you like it and use it then great.

The_G
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by The_G »

Sorry...that should read "dumbass gearhead fb group I've mentioned."

td3l
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by td3l »

Eurorack. It's cool and definitely innovative, but fuck me is that shit expensive for what you get out of it. For techno it's about as boutique as a real 808 or 909, and probably not as practical.

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Markus Wolf
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Markus Wolf »

The_G wrote:On that dumbass gearhead I've mentioned, people really like hardware VA synths. So much that many of them have paid nearly $3k for the Access Virus Ti2. It's not a bad synth, mind you, but that's a steep price for something that doesn't even sound as good as Diva.

That made me think: what's some other gear that you think is overrated and overpriced?
Im probably going to get death threats for suggesting this but im going to say the Minimoog Model D. I think they are about $4000 USD. But all joking aside if you think about it every piece of equipment except the one that gets the job done would be overpriced and unnecessary. That being said we are all gear heads and love toys.... But overpriced to who are things only over priced when we cant afford them so its kind of relative also. Some of the best music Dance music has been made with laptops so im sure some of those producers woudl have considered any piece of gear except their laptops and headphones overpriced. With the Hardware VA you mentioned it could be ergonomics as much as sound, some like to twist knobs and not touch a mouse and that comes at a price. Im too lazy to spell check its close to my bedtime.

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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by The_G »

I have nothing against VA. But the Virus TI2 costs $3000! You can get an OB-6 or P6 for that, which are actual analog, sound better and come with more knobs, sliders and keys. Or you could get a System-8, a Deepmind 12 desktop *and* a Minilogue.

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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by gedda »

I think in general, hardware is pretty overrated. I have quite a few pieces too. They are funner to play with though!

I also think analog is overrated. Lots of VST VAs can do what analogs do.

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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by The_G »

gedda wrote:I think in general, hardware is pretty overrated. I have quite a few pieces too. They are funner to play with though!

I also think analog is overrated. Lots of VST VAs can do what analogs do.
Yes agreed, mostly. Diva is an incredibly capable synth...for about 1/20 the price of the Virus I'm posting about.

My position on analog is...no, it is not the be all end all of synthesis. But if I'm going to buy a hardware synth, it has to either be analog (i.e. a thing I can't get in software form) or be a very good VA or other form of digital synthesis that is also good value for what you get. The System 8 is arguably that, as you get the main VA *plus* the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 clones--which are very good--for about $1500. You could say that's $500 per synth as you are getting 3 synths in one package. Compare that with comparably quality software, and it's a price ratio of about 15/6 instead of 20/1. Add in a comprehensive controller keyboard, like the Nektar P6 and that ratio goes to about 15/11.

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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Alume »

It's not all about sound, its about the experience too. Using a 20 year old piece of kit is sure as hell going to affect your sound, using any synth for that matter.

I believe saying that hardware is overrated is pretty shortsighted. For some, using hardware is simply more inspiring than software. You can feel the modulations you're applying, the instrument is yours to play rather than yours to program. It's like choosing to write with a typewriter, or paint with a brush. There are software alternatives but that doesn't mean you should disregard more traditional approaches.

buffered
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by buffered »

i don't think price has much to do with gear being overrated. Sometimes it just costs a manufacturer alot to build something and then with markup it becomes expensive. Can still be shit though.
I think you get more of the overrated scenario when it comes to cheap gear, as a whole heap of people buy a substandard product and gush over it because they don't know any better. This can be seen with all those volca boxes and with shitty monitors.
Apart from this, if i buy a machine and i get a track out of it....i'm satisfied. Even if it was expensive. Once the money is spent, i don't think about it. Live life. Money comes and goes.

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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Alume »

Hear hear!

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Críoch
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Críoch »

For me personally, I've always enjoyed the freedom of music making with plugins.. and still use the computer of course, but I always feel a bit disconnected with them.

Maybe its because I played instruments as a kid.. but the experience of having an object to interact with is superior. It supplies something to me that software alone cannot. Leads, cables.. buttons, faders.. keys, strings, sticks.. microphones.. noise.. its a real experience.

A lot of classic equipment is expensive, but you have to look upon them as instruments. Electronic music is music too. Its not surprising that you will have pieces that will be comparable to the likes of a stradivarius violin one day. Given how manufacturing has changed over the last 40 - 50 years, a lot of old equipment is not only iconic.. but in short supply for a genuine reason. Sure people are inflating the prices, but at least the equipment might be looked after properly in the years to come. That shit is as rare as they come. Living fossils.

What do I think is overpriced atm? Agree with the volca's / boutique line comment. My only concern with them is the way they have had to compromise on some features due to the price point. Its a shame about their size.. the knobs.. mini jacks.. the lack of outputs.. and features that nobody wants to use aka: using the TR8 as a 96k soundcard over usb to access all the outs & then not being able to use your main soundcard / other harware. I would never consider buying the boutique 909 - whatever its name is; I actually dont know, thats how little I care about it. Too small. Output situation is a complete joke. Nuts.
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Alume
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Alume »

Great input, fully agree.

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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by The_G »

I love the hardware I own and have with me here in Singapore, which isn't very much at present--a Minilogue and a Ju-06. I haven't used either in productions yet, as I find software more convenient for sharing studio/office space with my wife (and her things). When I get back to LA, I'll have a better space situation, but this is how it is right now.

That said, I've spent many a lovely afternoon and evening just mucking around on the synths and using their wonderfully tactile controls. I'm not a hardware hater at all.

I'm just baffled as to why people want to pay $3k for a ho hum VA.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Lost to the Void »

The_G wrote:I have nothing against VA. But the Virus TI2 costs $3000! You can get an OB-6 or P6 for that, which are actual analog, sound better and come with more knobs, sliders and keys. Or you could get a System-8, a Deepmind 12 desktop *and* a Minilogue.

I don't know what "better sound" really means in this case.
They are different synths.
Viruses have their own sound, and the TI2 has an insane amount of options and routings and oscillator types, effects, note count etcl. No it doesn't sound like an OB6, for that you would would want an OB6, but it will do a lot of stuff not achievable with an OB6.
They get used by production, score people a lot in TV and film.
Definitely overpriced, but not a bad synth in any way. It's more than just a VA (not that analog is the be all and end all anyway).


Despite having owned nearly all Elektron gear, and loving nearly all of it (Octa - best, RTM worst), I think it's overpriced.
Back when they started they were a boutique company and then prices reflected that. Now they are pretty popular but their pricing is still boutique level.
Kinda annoys me.

I'm not a huge hardware fan, even though I have a decent amount, it's a slow and clumsy way for me to make music, compared to the speed and convenience of software. As I have mentioned before, I get an idea and I want to realise an idea as quick as possible. I'm not a fiddler, I don't piss about for hours waiting for something to come out of my machine.

In or out the box none of it is like playing a real instrument with actual feedback, like a drum kit or a guitar, where you feel the reverberations because you make them.
You learn the bounce back of the drum skin and how to adjust for that relating to volume and tone, or the string tension in a guitar and how far to bend it for a semitone or just where and with how much pressure to touch the string for a pinch harmonic.

A nob on an analog synth is the same as a nob on a controller for a vst, you are turning some thing that then changes an electronically generated parameter.

Overrated.... Hmmmmmm.
Can't think many synths that aren't as good as people say they are..
Moogs perhaps get a bit more reverence than their sound deserves. But people like to have their hero worship and brand reverence. It's like a meme, an orthodoxy.

The worst overpricing goes on in pro audio land.
Market something to a pro audio market and you can slap 20% on the price.
Write mastering on it and you can pretty much charge what you like.

When a compressor costs more than a decent car, I question it heavily.
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td3l
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by td3l »

Alume wrote:It's not all about sound, its about the experience too. Using a 20 year old piece of kit is sure as hell going to affect your sound, using any synth for that matter.

I believe saying that hardware is overrated is pretty shortsighted. For some, using hardware is simply more inspiring than software. You can feel the modulations you're applying, the instrument is yours to play rather than yours to program. It's like choosing to write with a typewriter, or paint with a brush. There are software alternatives but that doesn't mean you should disregard more traditional approaches.
I feel you. I've come to believe that "overrated" is a relative matter, both to the individual and to the rest of their setup.

How much does your $3000 vintage boutique piece of kit or $4000 modular truly add to *your* sound as an artist? How essential is it to your workflow and output? Could you get 80% of its use and mojo out of a VST or modern budget synth that costs 1/10 the price? What kind of monitors do you have? How speedy is your DAW's computer? Do you have a mixer or mixing environment that suits you? Do you have all the right effects for actually producing the tracks you want? I think issues arise when people don't ask themselves these questions and put the cart before the horse with regards to gear.

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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by WOLF! »

Lots of vintage stuff is overpriced because of the current hype. When you want that kind of stuff you're simply to late; everybody is hunting down those things.
When speaking off overpriced, the TB-303 is the first thing that comes to my mind. Yes it's a classic but I think it's crazy when you pay over 2000 euro (and you gonna have luck to find a nice looking one for that price) for a TB-303.
There is no need to start the hardware vs software debate over here. It's a personal thing and it's all about what you like and what you do with it.
It's also quite lame to think that only the analog synth are fat and all the digital stuff is lame; that would be limiting yourself to the same sounds over and over.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Lost to the Void »

My god yes.
The 303, 909 and 808 are ridiculously overpriced for what you get for sure.
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by The_G »

Of course the Virus isn't a bad synth (it's quite capable). It's just that the price tag is nuts.

Vintage gear is another story. There are only a finite number of pieces put there, and a dwindling number that are in workable condition. Meanwhile demand for the x0x boxes remains steady. Those prices may never stop going up.

But yeah, I saw a guy on that gearhead group who recently purchased his 3rd Jupiter 8. To each their own, but I can think of a lot more useful ways to spend $24k.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Overrated and overpriced gear

Post by Lost to the Void »

Yeah i don't understand how the TI desktop is still 1400 quid new.
It should be half that. I know it has a few shark dsp chips in but even so....
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