The production level of current 'vinyl only house' is so next level that it depresses the hell out of me

[over9000]

i thought the same way as buonacc already but in an other topic that i dont remember right now ^^
and btw its pre menstrual syndrome thats causing much stress

[Plyphon]

That said, I've never heard that one in a club. Hopefully it'll work better there. At home, to me, it just sounds like someone made a great track, then decided to put it through a cassette sound emulation plugin, with all the settings at 11.

I can attest for certain that Adriyano track goes off in a club. It gets even the most seasoned on chin strokers tapping their foot.

As cheesy as Adriyano's tracks can be, they always capture a certain vibe that when it just hits right, it's perfect.

That's not really saying anything.
A good tune will work anyway.
It still sounds like a piece of shit, and at high volume will break apart, especially that fucked out low end, and will stand out as "is he playing a worn out record?" When put next to better produced stuff.
It's an example of taking things a little too far.

I mean, it is and it isn't. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a house track is just a house track, right? Whether it's too much for you and how it represents on a system is fairly academic if its reproducing exactly how the artist intended.

Theres space for both approaches, thankfully.

[Lost to the Void]

Well to illustrate my point.
Play any of the 2 initial tunes posted in this topic LOUD. If you can, play them until you feel some pressure.

Then immediately play the junk tune. There will be quite a leap in transients, punch and range. Things are smeared out.

Obviously the sound being aimed for is an old fucked record, or badly recorded vintage tune.

The tune is fine, but they could have done what they did without overcooking it. There's several different ways they could have got that sound without smooshing everything, and ended up keeping the sound more cohesive but still fucked to bits.

You get this problem in distorted (what they are calling industrial) techno quite a lot. Overcooking it.

There's nothing wrong with saying that, it's not like I've raped anyone's mum.

I mean some records are pig shit productions, but they are still "chooons". So this is all academic. People will dance to a fucking generator.

However. This is the production forum, where production is discussed no?

[buonacc]

... This is the production forum, where production is discussed no?

well, it's like we got into it before (can't recall what thread)... what is "production" when talking about techno or even music/art in general? i'm certainly glad that the Chain Reaction (or L.I.E.S., etc) guys weren't Subsekt members listening to you regarding what's right or wrong about their production skills. this isn't some paint-by-numbers "producer university" course. your knowledge and experience is greatly appreciated in most cases, but sometimes i feel like you completely miss the mark.

where were you when Subsekt Records put out that promo film clip that looked like it was made by a bunch of 5th grade dorks? how did that ever get past everyone? you guys lost before you even started.

[acesd619]

It's all about how you perceive things in relation to what you already know. I just finished making experimental beats for some rappers doing an EP and they think I'm really good. That's flattering but what the hell does a rapper know about the technicalities? How you perceive things might not be the way of truth. I was working on some beats while thinking about some pedals arriving this weekend. Should I feel guilty about not fully being in the zone? Shit no. This is a progressive journey up the mountain and there's no space to feel sorry for yourself or even be positively full of yourself. Embrace nothing.

[Mono-xID]

I like 5th grade dorks more than all the boiler room cunts. There's room for everyone.

[Planar]

where were you when Subsekt Records put out that promo film clip that looked like it was made by a bunch of 5th grade dorks? how did that ever get past everyone? you guys lost before you even started.

Does that mean you're gonna join the label group and do a better video next time? Or are you just going to be a prick about peoples hard work (for free) and snipe from afar?

[Mono-xID]

you guys lost before you even started.

What was lost exactly?

[[wesellboxes]]

I can attest for certain that Adriyano track goes off in a club. It gets even the most seasoned on chin strokers tapping their foot.

It's a good party track, so no surprises it goes off but the production is just awful. I grew up on the house that it's alluding too which, ironically, was done in proper studios. But even the bedroom stuff was a lot better than this. I doubt you'd even find a cutter BITD that would go near that low end.

[saffron]

Why do some people think that it's a question of creativity/art vs. technical skill? Surely the key is to master both? Since when did one override the other?

I think technical skill is paramount for creating in any art form. Of course, people can create banging songs without certain knowledge, but if you can learn to make music excel on a big sound system, then it takes it to a new level.

Just because the artist's who've released on Chain Reaction/L.I.E.S. have an 'industrial'/DIY aesthetic doesn't mean they don't care about technical skill either. A lot of their releases are very skilfully produced, in my opinion.

[buonacc]

where were you when Subsekt Records put out that promo film clip that looked like it was made by a bunch of 5th grade dorks? how did that ever get past everyone? you guys lost before you even started.

Does that mean you're gonna join the label group and do a better video next time? Or are you just going to be a prick about peoples hard work (for free) and snipe from afar?

lol, are you going to let me in now, or what? i asked forever ago. maybe a critical voice isn't a bad thing. would like to see what you guys are up to.

sorry, i do think that was a pretty "sub-par" (pun intended) effort. i was surprised, and found it hard to take the whole thing seriously after seeing that.

fwiw, i didn't think much of the track in the OP, and i'd agree that it was "overcooked". i do like a lot of "intentionally lo-fi" productions though.

[buonacc]

Why do some people think that it's a question of creativity/art vs. technical skill? Surely the key is to master both? Since when did one override the other?

I think technical skill is paramount for creating in any art form. Of course, people can create banging songs without certain knowledge, but if you can learn to make music excel on a big sound system, then it takes it to a new level.

Just because the artist's who've released on Chain Reaction/L.I.E.S. have an 'industrial'/DIY aesthetic doesn't mean they don't care about technical skill either. A lot of their releases are very skillfully produced, in my opinion.

good points, there is a "wrong" way to do things of course.

might be a good discussion, how to achieve that aesthetic and still have it sound "proper".

[Lost to the Void]

Why do some people think that it's a question of creativity/art vs. technical skill? Surely the key is to master both? Since when did one override the other?

I think technical skill is paramount for creating in any art form. Of course, people can create banging songs without certain knowledge, but if you can learn to make music excel on a big sound system, then it takes it to a new level.

Just because the artist's who've released on Chain Reaction/L.I.E.S. have an 'industrial'/DIY aesthetic doesn't mean they don't care about technical skill either. A lot of their releases are very skilfully produced, in my opinion.

Well this. The DIY ethic is wonderful, I've lived by it, you can have artistic purity AND good technicality, I`ve always looked to those with better skills than me, and I still do, for ideas and advice and inspiration, something to strive for....
It`s not the be all and end all, but reaching for perfection/self improvement is a great ideal in art. It`s not about getting to that mythic place of perfection, it`s about trying.
My first vinyl release was a fucking pigshit mix, but it sold fucking thousands and thousands of records.
It doesn`t mean I don`t look back on it now and think "jaysus christ, that sounds like shit". I still stand by the music, but the production was bollocks.
I master a fair bit of noise music now as I`ve got sort of known for being happy to handle it, and sympathetic to that type of music, so even noise music can be technically improved.
I remember an interview with William Bennett a few years back where he was gushing over the mastering done for one of the last whitehouse releases, outside of the subject of mastering, what he talked about, in terms of technicality being no hindrance to art, really made me think about pushing myself further in terms of *trying to* master both aspects of the creation of music.

And for the Record I thought the little promo clip that was contributions from the community all recording themselves saying "Subsekt is coming" was lovely. It was entirely in the spirit of the project, and no one lost anything because of it, it was a really great exercise and I`m proud of everyone who was a part of it (the first release), and I was proud to be involved, and still am.
I hope it will roll forwards and improve each time.

If you want to piss on that, fair enough, maybe this place isn`t for you then........ You probably won`t be missed.

[Mono-xID]

Why do some people think that it's a question of creativity/art vs. technical skill? Surely the key is to master both? Since when did one override the other?

I think technical skill is paramount for creating in any art form. Of course, people can create banging songs without certain knowledge, but if you can learn to make music excel on a big sound system, then it takes it to a new level.

Just because the artist's who've released on Chain Reaction/L.I.E.S. have an 'industrial'/DIY aesthetic doesn't mean they don't care about technical skill either. A lot of their releases are very skillfully produced, in my opinion.

good points, there is a "wrong" way to do things of course.

might be a good discussion, how to achieve that aesthetic and still have it sound "proper".

Actually, Steve said exactly the same thing just in typical Voidloss manner.

[Lost to the Void]

I like 5th grade dorks more than all the boiler room cunts. There's room for everyone.

[Planar]

where were you when Subsekt Records put out that promo film clip that looked like it was made by a bunch of 5th grade dorks? how did that ever get past everyone? you guys lost before you even started.

Does that mean you're gonna join the label group and do a better video next time? Or are you just going to be a prick about peoples hard work (for free) and snipe from afar?

lol, are you going to let me in now, or what? i asked forever ago. maybe a critical voice isn't a bad thing. would like to see what you guys are up to.

sorry, i do think that was a pretty "sub-par" (pun intended) effort. i was surprised, and found it hard to take the whole thing seriously after seeing that.

Sorry, I must have missed you in the request thread. I’ll add you tomorrow as long as your contribution is going to be more than a “critical voice”. There’s already plenty enough of them. And you’re doing the next promo vid. Criticism is fine, btw, but being a bellend about it isn’t.

[Planar]

You've got access now, buonacc.

[buonacc]

thank you.

[Ben Kohonays]

... This is the production forum, where production is discussed no?

where were you when Subsekt Records put out that promo film clip that looked like it was made by a bunch of 5th grade dorks? how did that ever get past everyone? you guys lost before you even started.

Not sure what your beef or agenda is, but often companies spend lots of money trying to make videos that look 'homebaked' identical to that. Big business yearns to appeal as if it's not some global conglomerate because they understand that people are suspicious of big corporations, and attempt to market things as if it's just some John Doe doing shit from his bedroom or basement.

I was pleasantly surprised how well it turned out, and on first viewing had the exact thought that we had achieved something that could have cost a lot of money if we had employed some marketing company, but had done so purely from passion at zero cost.

you guys lost before you even started.

I would love to hear your thoughts about what was lost - genuinely, not trying to troll you.

[Lost to the Void]

I was pleasantly surprised how well it turned out, and on first viewing had the exact thought that we had achieved something that could have cost a lot of money if we had employed some marketing company, but had done so purely from passion at zero cost.

This.....

It was a collective effort and collectively decided.
It wasn`t me saying "yes, this video is just what I wanted"
It's not my label and I have no final say in anything, this was the community coming together to do something we all believe in, and it represents something we are not seeing elsewhere in the scene, the promotion video wasn't about some bullshit slick paid for graphic design, it was specifically decided that it was to collate the input provided by those who wanted to, to represent the collective ideal. Anyone who wanted simply had to provide a short sting with the words "subsekt is coming" in it.
If anyone thinks they can help make refinements to anything then they should step up and put in, but I consider the first release nothing but success.

We started a label with a manifesto based on collective effort and elevating the music.
We collectively managed to raise funds, decide on the music, develop a logo, decide on and execute final cover art, roll out a stepped promotion program and put out a final release. The release made back more than was put in, the pot is therefore now there to help support the next few releases.
All of this was done democratically, with adult discussion and no one throwing their toys out of the pram...

In this day I consider that a fucking success.