Low percussive sounds

[AVTWEE]

Hey guys,

Once again, a sound design question..

I want to improve the low end of my tracks, not merely by bass, but by percussive hits. SP-X does it wonderfully over and over again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoSCp3m_8D8

another example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJnNVdIq34w

Of course, he has monsterkicks, so the low percussive elements blend in much better. Buttttt.. the percussive low elements. How are they done. Often they sound like some replicas of his kicks, but they don't have the same impact in clubs/monitors.

It's not that i want that perticular sound, but more the effect of what it does in the track. if i know how to arrange something like this i will give it my own twist with my own way of processing sounds.

Do you guys have some advice on how to start with implementing low percussive elements. I really want to determine my groove with these elements rather then with the more traditional percussion, hats etc.

I guess i could make distorted synth hits with a pitch envelope, perhaps some saturation. Does anybody has personal experience with this? some tips/tricks, do's and dont's?

Lets get this discussion started.

[diacope]

Maybe cut freqs from 90hz up? Filter delay on kick? An extra sub kick mixed pretty low in the mix? A few ideas.

[Ant]

Pitched down Toms are a classic way of adding low freq rhythm, but you can also try pitching any purcussive sound. Just make sure you eq so the sub doesn't get too muddy.

[sam]

The kicks at the start of these tracks are amazing and I haven't really got a clue about how it's done.

But I will go on to say that I suppose it could be done in a lot of ways and sounds like it could be a combination of some very clever, precise, and subtle programming, which possibly makes use of sample chopping, choke groups, eq, filtering, compression, clever sequencing, and did I already mention clever, precise and subtle programming?

In short the kind of thing that'll take years of practice and experimentation to pull off with the same degree of awesome.

The way they cascade off of and into each other is done so well. It's either really easy or something that's come about from refining the process over a long period of time, and I'd definitely lean more towards the latter case because if it was easy everyone would do it. Fuck I know I would.

If I could program kicks like that I would never leave the house again, and in fact I probably wouldn't even be here because I'd be downstairs completely mesmerized while I belted them out 24x7

[Patriek]

If i work on things like this, i usually use a filter to cut of the high end of the low toms. I also adjust the attack on the tom to that the start of the tom is not that loud. Perhaps a reverb with high ends cut, and a short decay/reverb time. I just try to focus on the low ends of the tom/percussion sounds and make it sit in the middle of my kicks.

Usually i just fiddle around with the different parameters and see where it ends. But thats how i start when i use toms/percussion.

[AVTWEE]

The kicks at the start of these tracks are amazing and I haven't really got a clue about how it's done.



The way they cascade off of and into each other is done so well. It's either really easy or something that's come about from refining the process over a long period of time, and I'd definitely lean more towards the latter case because if it was easy everyone would do it. Fuck I know I would.

Exactly, I'm also a person who thinks that things like this are too complicated to work out.. However, I always find out things are not as complicated as they seem in first place. But in this case I must agree that its complicated. It rumbles incredibly sweet without being muddy.

[gurr13r]

Those low hits to me sound like kicks eq'd and panned

[Ant]

I would put money on the start of this track being a kick with a multitap delay on it.

youtu.be/FJnNVdIq34w

[Mattias]

I would put money on the start of this track being a kick with a multitap delay on it.

youtu.be/FJnNVdIq34w

Yes, delays or lots of playing around with velocity levels.

[Críoch]

If one was to make a rhythm like that - which I have been doing recently with The filter delay in Ableton (on a return track).. what would be the best approach in terms of EQ / Stereo Field?

I'm paranoid about much to cut from the bottom of the delays and what should be in mono, cos they are flying about. Would be cool to hear some opinions.

I'm also para about the delays landing on the 4.4 kicks haha.. But I like the sound of it a lot.

[Ant]

OK, so I had a (very) quick mess around with PSP608 delay and this is what I got. Obviously it isn't as good as the original, but hopefully it isn't so bad you can't hear what I am trying to do:



Here is a screen shot of my settings, as you can see the chain with the delay on it is switched on and off.

[Dirk L]

Sounds cool!

Very appreciative of that screenshot Ant

[sam]

it sounds to me like Ant and Matt could be right with the multitaps or clever velocity, and just done incredibly well.

[Mattias]

You use the delays on the aux / sends? If you used it on the Insert then skip it and tap the delay from the sends instead.
Insert distortion units and distort / exaggerate saturation the delay channel and low-pass the effect a bit

[Ant]

...and just done incredibly well.

Agreed.

[Ant]

You use the delays on the aux / sends?

No, not as a rule. I was just trying it out and using a seperate chain instead of a send gave me everything in one channel and is the same as having the send at 100%.

[Mattias]

Yes but you can't color only the delay with more effects.

[Críoch]

@Sam - I'll have a look for it. Its buried deep in the loop folder haha

@Ant - cool with the on/off -just had a mess with that & its good.

[Ant]

Yes you can. Anything put in the delay chain will only colour the delay. In fact if you look at the image the eg8 is only affecting the delay channel.

All that said, you are right in that it is probably better to put the delay in the send. The one difference it would make it you could choose to send less than 100% of the signal to the delay.

Yes but you can't color only the delay with more effects.

[Mattias]

My bad, I dont talk clearly enough sorry. I meant as how it actually works if you insert a delay on the kick channel, everything put after the delay will obviously color the delay but also the kick itself which we're not after when we just want to affect the delay signal!