your ITB tracks

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Barfunkel
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Barfunkel »

Wiu wrote:Well I think I'd rather listen to some well done 1928 low quality Techno over some of the over produced high fidelity 2015 shit that's released today. A great track will sound good regardless of what it's been produced on.
Me too. Then again, if you want an old school techno setup you have to spend LOTS of money. A 909 costs 3000€. 303 as well. 101 costs 1000€. Juno costs 1500€. Etc etc.
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Mattias
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Mattias »

I can post some old tracks made with an MPC and a crappy Alesis (Alex or something) verb unit and a boss pedal for fun. That digi distortion from the Alesis unit was so shit ;)
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by UN!T B »

Lost to the Void wrote: Shitty sounding techno can be made with an MPC and a crappy old effects unit sure

We have moved on since 1928 and fidelity overall has improved.
Please provide us with a list of required gear to make "good sounding techno" then. Thank-you.
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by UN!T B »

Wiu wrote:Well I think I'd rather listen to some well done 1928 low quality Techno over some of the over produced high fidelity 2015 shit that's released today. A great track will sound good regardless of what it's been produced on.
Exactly my point. I would rather listen to a good piece of music.
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by AxeD »

Barfunkel wrote:But, I definitely wouldn't be able to get good results with just an MPC and a cheap FX unit (and where do your sounds come from anyway if you own nothing but a sampler?).
You gotta bring your MPC to a good record shop and just start gathering drum samples and shit.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Lost to the Void »

UN!T B wrote:
Wiu wrote:Well I think I'd rather listen to some well done 1928 low quality Techno over some of the over produced high fidelity 2015 shit that's released today. A great track will sound good regardless of what it's been produced on.
Exactly my point. I would rather listen to a good piece of music.

Straw man

You can have well produced music that is also a good piece of music. Especially in this day and age where knowledge and technology is easily available.

Of course musicality always comes first.

No excuse to have sound that sounds like it was recorded up the ass of a rotting elephant carcass.
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by UN!T B »

Barfunkel wrote:
Sure you can make some techno on almost anything. But, I definitely wouldn't be able to get good results with just an MPC and a cheap FX unit (and where do your sounds come from anyway if you own nothing but a sampler?).
Maybe this is just a case of personal preferences? Maybe its that you just don't have enough experience with the item in question. I find for myself I can get to where I like easier with some preferred hardware than I can with software but maybe that is just because I don't have enough experience with the software in question?

If you only own a sampler, sample records, sample house hold objects, field recordings whatever...
I have a cheap setup myself, and I surely can't get professional results with it. Of course, only a bad worksman blames his tools, but when I compare my stuff to professional stuff I hear all kinds of things that could be fixed with, for example, quality EQ, compressors and FX. I'm pretty sure I have a few nice tracks that would be release quality, were they sonically better.
Then maybe you should take those tracks to a mixing and master engineer. They have the gear to sort that out. You're the musician and they are the engineer.
I was also talking about variety. You can get a simple setup for not THAT much money, but if you want all kinds of different sounds and own just one or two synths, you might get a bit stuck.
A sampler is an unlimited palette of sounds that's why its one of the greatest innovations in electronic music
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Wiu »

It's funny though really, it's most likely someone without knowledge and the latest technology that will come along and shake shit up.
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Lost to the Void »

Doubt it.
They will make use of new technology in new ways, but good production is good production.

Even the sex pistols were produced well.

Good production standards and good musicality are not mutually exclusive.

The only people who seem to take a hardline against it, in my experience, are those who can't produce to a decent standard, so they excuse their lack of skill by "its raw innit" statements and so on.
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Re: your ITB tracks

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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Lost to the Void »

But anyway, yes ITB OTB, whatever, it's all good, it's the end result that counts.
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Wiu »

Lost to the Void wrote:Doubt it.
They will make use of new technology in new ways, but good production is good production.

Even the sex pistols were produced well.

Good production standards and good musicality are not mutually exclusive.

The only people who seem to take a hardline against it, in my experience, are those who can't produce to a decent standard, so they excuse their lack of skill by "its raw innit" statements and so on.
The production side of things, I see your point. It's what sets the Pros like yourself and the hobbyists like me apart. To anything new and exciting only coming from using new technology I don't though. When Techno/Acid House was first being done it was from old technology used in different ways. Look at when Dubstep was first around, there wasn't anything new being done there really, it was just a bunch of kids fucking around doing what they wanted. Arguably it was there lack of knowledge that made it what it was by trying to imitate the records they liked. Only when Skream took it to work did they polish the production side of it and put it out. Techno wise, look at the whole distorted to fuck fad or broken beat stuff, no new technology there, just a different way of doing things that got popular.

I'm not a Sex Pistols fan and they may of been fucking awesomely produced for all I know, but was it really by them? I imagine it was by the record labels studio team I'd guess. I'm sure some record label A&R guy would of heard them in some shithole of a club and heard something raw as fuck that he could sell. Or maybe it was all them, like I say I'm not a fan and don't know their music or back story. Maybe they were all great producers. Rotten didn't even actually play on the records did he? Would it be fair to say that most bands don't really have a fucking clue about the production side of things? Especially mainstream bands? I imagine they just go in, have a little practice, record some shit, fuck off home and a few months later a finely polished track is played to them.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong! Like I say, you're the Pro and have a hell of a lot more knowledge on such matters after all.
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by UN!T B »

Boxes...

Some boxes are shiny and new...
Other boxes are dull and grey...
Some boxes have lots of knobs...
Others have none...

Some people have but only 1 box...
Other people have several boxes...
Some boxes work by themselves...
Other boxes can only do a thing or 2...

Sometimes people connect some of their boxes together...
Other times people try to put those boxes inside other boxes...
Which then then put in a box above their head while they fly on an airplane...
Everybody loves a good box...
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Planar »

When did this become a thing with a certain part of the techno community, that OTB is the only way to get a pro sound? I don't come across this anywhere else. Music has never sounded as generally technically good as it does now (for better or worse) and there's more options for how to create it than ever.

Pick whatever works for you and have fun with it.

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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Planar »

Wiu wrote:To anything new and exciting only coming from using new technology I don't though.
I think it's happened in the fairly recent past. Witness how techy DnB morphed into neuro thanks to oodles of processing power. That was exciting for a while. I think it'd happen more often if many genres weren't as fixated with looking to the past all the time.

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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Lost to the Void »

Wiu wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:Doubt it.
They will make use of new technology in new ways, but good production is good production.

Even the sex pistols were produced well.

Good production standards and good musicality are not mutually exclusive.

The only people who seem to take a hardline against it, in my experience, are those who can't produce to a decent standard, so they excuse their lack of skill by "its raw innit" statements and so on.
The production side of things, I see your point. It's what sets the Pros like yourself and the hobbyists like me apart. To anything new and exciting only coming from using new technology I don't though. When Techno/Acid House was first being done it was from old technology used in different ways. Look at when Dubstep was first around, there wasn't anything new being done there really, it was just a bunch of kids fucking around doing what they wanted. Arguably it was there lack of knowledge that made it what it was by trying to imitate the records they liked. Only when Skream took it to work did they polish the production side of it and put it out. Techno wise, look at the whole distorted to fuck fad or broken beat stuff, no new technology there, just a different way of doing things that got popular.

I'm not a Sex Pistols fan and they may of been fucking awesomely produced for all I know, but was it really by them? I imagine it was by the record labels studio team I'd guess. I'm sure some record label A&R guy would of heard them in some shithole of a club and heard something raw as fuck that he could sell. Or maybe it was all them, like I say I'm not a fan and don't know their music or back story. Maybe they were all great producers. Rotten didn't even actually play on the records did he? Would it be fair to say that most bands don't really have a fucking clue about the production side of things? Especially mainstream bands? I imagine they just go in, have a little practice, record some shit, fuck off home and a few months later a finely polished track is played to them.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong! Like I say, you're the Pro and have a hell of a lot more knowledge on such matters after all.
No you are right, of course Sex pistols, Who I don't like either, it was merely an example, were produced in a studio (and by the live sound engineers at gigs of course). The point is abusing equipment, breaking rules etc is all part of the creative process, and you can then still apply good basic production technique to then have it sound nice.
Loads and loads of bands have no clue to production practice, but then they will gladly turn to professionals to record and mix etc.

A lot of early Dubstep was made in half decent project studios in south London.
When it was still fresh I did a lot of soundsystem work for some of the parties down south London way, and I was always impressed with the depth of the production, the production standards were pretty good, all the chest plate guys for example, knew their shit, lots of guys came over from drum and bass etc.

But sure, using old technology in new ways is also something that happens ( though it's rare these days as all the old kit has been rinsed)

I guess the point is, regardless of creative methods. Good production still comes in to play. It's stunning just how well made some stuff (in techno land) is these days. I'm always wanting to step up my game because of it, these are interesting times I think.
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by UN!T B »

Lost to the Void wrote:
UN!T B wrote:Techno can be made with an MPC and a crappy old $100 effects unit. Its not a requirement to have a ton of compressors and other hi end gear. That's just bullshit.

Shitty sounding techno can be made with an MPC and a crappy old effects unit sure

We have moved on since 1928 and fidelity overall has improved.

Fixed that for you.

Some people are still using mpc series machines. Kassem Mosse uses one in his set up and there are many others as well.
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Lost to the Void »

I have a Ferrari

Ooh do you?

Yes, it's an amazing piece of engineering.

Wow, then let's go for a drive.


Oh I can't drive, I just push it in and out of the garage.
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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by Ttinga »

Planar wrote:When did this become a thing with a certain part of the techno community, that OTB is the only way to get a pro sound? I don't come across this anywhere else. Music has never sounded as generally technically good as it does now (for better or worse) and there's more options for how to create it than ever.

Pick whatever works for you and have fun with it.
Amen. For an allegedly forward-looking genre techno can be pretty ass-backwards and purist at time. For example people shitting on digital djs and glorifying vinyl.

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Re: your ITB tracks

Post by winston »

Barfunkel wrote:
Wiu wrote:Well I think I'd rather listen to some well done 1928 low quality Techno over some of the over produced high fidelity 2015 shit that's released today. A great track will sound good regardless of what it's been produced on.
Me too. Then again, if you want an old school techno setup you have to spend LOTS of money. A 909 costs 3000€. 303 as well. 101 costs 1000€. Juno costs 1500€. Etc etc.

Do 909s go for 3000euro now? that is a ridiculous price to pay for them. I sold mine for £700 about 7 years ago and that was the going price then on ebay. only the foolish or naive would pay the crazy money for one today.

as for the in/out question does it really matter? do what you want and let those that can't complain about not being able to and try to belittle things. would you ever listen to a vinyl record in a record shop and decide to buy it, only to decide against it when the guy at the counter says "he made those tracks just using ableton's own devices"? of course you wouldn't. this is just another internet argument, where people try to justify their own beliefs. if the only information you had about making techno (and any other music) was from guys in record shops and pilled up people in nightclubs and afterparties, and your equipment was whatever equipment you could find in the nearest big city, you'd still be able to make good music.

everyone is right, everyone is an expert, everyone is a cunt. :)


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