Hi-End Distortion from late 90’s / early 2000s records

[Zero_Idea]

Hi Subsekt,

Had a few questions regarding hi-end distortion and how it relates to the vinyl cutting process for late 90’s / early 2000s techno records.

From researching on the internet, this forum, as well as buying records, it seems much of that sound was forged by Nilz from the Exchange and his mastering process cutting records hot.

The two questions I have are:

1) Did the premasters he receive already have distortion baked in that help create that sound (crunchy/fizzy hi-end) or was it really all Nilz? In short, I’m curious how these premasters sounded and is their a way to communicate to a mastering engineer that that’s the sound I want? Some examples included below

2) I’ve read through all of the distortion and drum processing threads and tried different techniques including the phantom distortion trick, distorting drum bus with kick included to effect hi-end with various pedal / pre amp emulations and it gets close but not that really fizzy crunchy hi end I’m searching for. Is there techniques / advice / plugins / hardware to try to achieve this sound? Is it even possible since potentially much of the fizz is coming from the record / stylus and way it was cut?

Examples:
https://youtu.be/DPEhgGsX9l8?si=awinAv8dz4mlUE_3

This example by Mark Williams is probably the best example of the fizzy hi-hats I’m aiming for

https://youtu.be/qm2mJJaX5mw?si=4aLApfI4burEZ3ET

https://youtu.be/gCEMTcauC88?si=rMYpJseCWFr-Bz2r


Appreciate any thoughts or advice in advance.

[mainst09]

I would say that both the compression and distortion from the artist and then the later process from Nilz created that kind of sound. Nilz yes would put his signature sound on tracks, however the fact that most machines were analog and they used mixing desks that when saturated would give a certain sound helped shape that hi-end distortion. Its all just lots of compression and different kinds of distortion working all together.
I'm sure somebody here will be able to give you a more technical response

[Zero_Idea]

I recently got my hands on a Mackie CR-1604 and an Alesis 3630 - I think it’s time to dirty up some drums. I stubbornly want to try to figure this out in the box Appreciate your response!

[Mslwte]

I recently got my hands on a Mackie CR-1604 and an Alesis 3630 - I think it’s time to dirty up some drums. I stubbornly want to try to figure this out in the box Appreciate your response!

You should open up the 3630 and modify it. I have 2 of them, one is modified to sound cleaner and the other one is dirtier.

[Lost to the Void]

Hi Subsekt,

Had a few questions regarding hi-end distortion and how it relates to the vinyl cutting process for late 90’s / early 2000s techno records.

From researching on the internet, this forum, as well as buying records, it seems much of that sound was forged by Nilz from the Exchange and his mastering process cutting records hot.

The two questions I have are:

1) Did the premasters he receive already have distortion baked in that help create that sound (crunchy/fizzy hi-end) or was it really all Nilz? In short, I’m curious how these premasters sounded and is their a way to communicate to a mastering engineer that that’s the sound I want? Some examples included below

2) I’ve read through all of the distortion and drum processing threads and tried different techniques including the phantom distortion trick, distorting drum bus with kick included to effect hi-end with various pedal / pre amp emulations and it gets close but not that really fizzy crunchy hi end I’m searching for. Is there techniques / advice / plugins / hardware to try to achieve this sound? Is it even possible since potentially much of the fizz is coming from the record / stylus and way it was cut?

Examples:
https://youtu.be/DPEhgGsX9l8?si=awinAv8dz4mlUE_3

This example by Mark Williams is probably the best example of the fizzy hi-hats I’m aiming for

https://youtu.be/qm2mJJaX5mw?si=4aLApfI4burEZ3ET

https://youtu.be/gCEMTcauC88?si=rMYpJseCWFr-Bz2r


Appreciate any thoughts or advice in advance.

I actually use Nilz process sometimes when mastering 90`s style stuff.
It took me ages to work it out based around sitting in on cutting sessions with him back in the day, playing around with gear, getting the right gear and then having a lightbulb moment after a lot of experimentation.
I`m not going to give away the secrets but I can tell you what it isn`t and give you some pointers.

1)Did the premasters he receive already have distortion baked in that help create that sound.............................................................. I’m curious how these premasters sounded and is their a way to communicate to a mastering engineer that that’s the sound I want? Some examples included below

In short, no, the state of the mixes is sort of irrelevant. If you want that sound, then ask your mastering engineer to do "the Nilz thing". He essentially learned it from Porky of Porky`s mastering.
They may or may not be able to help you. Not all engineers know how to do it, especially the new ones freshly out of SAA or wherever asit`s based around some old gear and some old techniques/processes.

2) I’ve read through all of the distortion and drum processing threads and tried different techniques including the phantom distortion trick, distorting drum bus with kick included to effect hi-end with various pedal / pre amp emulations and it gets close but not that really fizzy crunchy hi end I’m searching for. Is there techniques / advice / plugins / hardware to try to achieve this sound? Is it even possible since potentially much of the fizz is coming from the record / stylus and way it was cut?

There really isn`t a plugin that will do it, the sound is based around a very dynamic mastering chain, and specific types of devices, INCLUDING the Neuman cutting console. The cut, or I should really say, the prep/premastering for the cut, is where the magic happens.
HEAVY compression. Think 50`s-60`s tech. There really isn`t any software that works. I`ve gotten closest by digging in to all of the many parameters of u-He Presswerk, but it just can`t handle the amount gain reduction you need. It will get you maybe 60%-70% of the way to emulating one the dynamic stages of the process. u-He Satin, if you use it as a Compander, will also help a little, but you really have to be quite specific with the settings (it`s worth learning how to use u-He Satin as a dynamics processor, it generally does some stuff, in hardware-like dynamics terms, other software doesn`t), but I really haven`t found anything that will do the second stage dynamics right.

You will need valves, transformers, actual, not virtual, as virtual stuff doesn`t break up right (yet). There really isn`t a cheap way of getting this sound , if there was, my bank balance would be healthier.

And it will really help to understand the cutting process in technical terms, as in the various eccentricities of lacquer and cutters, and where their limitations are. This is partly about the gear, and partly about exploiting the weaknesses of vinyl. Or, I should say, it`s partly about exploiting the processes that deal with the limitations/weakness of vinyl (lacquer) and the cutting head.
This is also a destructive process, in mastering terms, and it doesn`t work on everything.

There is NO distortion processing or units used in this process at all. Things may be driven, but nothing FOR distortion is a part of the process.
The tunes do not need to be already distorted to get this sound, in fact quite the opposite, you need a very clean, very sharp and crisp top end on the tune being mastered itself, to get the best from this technique. An already distorted tune will lose too much transients and will get too messy via this process. You will notice on some Nilz tunes he has mastered, where the production is maybe not so good, the top end will sound kinda flat, and lacking dynamics, instead of fizzy it will be......kinda pink noisy and soft. (Big clue)... Also don`t blame Nilz for this, it is probably where the client has insisted he "do his thing" despite probably advising against it.


That`s a fairly good point in the right direction.
I mean, essentially you need to know how to master records.